Talk of talent and recruiting

[GoSTATE71]

So everyone is drinking the "We have young talent, and these recruiting classes are awesome"

Does anyone not realize that we have almost been dead last in recruiting in the big 12 the last 3 years?

2011: 9th (2.65 star average)
2012: 10th (2.76 star average)
2013: 9th (2.5 star average)
*Notable: we have one 4 star commit in 2013 in Lazard, thats it.

Dig further, Kansas state has been about the same in their recruiting right near the bottom with us and Kansas. However, K-state was one game away from a national title last year and was solid the previous 2 years. So really, can we blame it on recruiting alone?

I blame coaching. K-State developed their players, we don't. Have we had any players really improve that greatly during 4 years outside of Knott and Klein? Iowa State is a good place to go if you want your QB dreams to die instantly or be a mediocre RB behind a crap offense.

Defense was salty, credit Burnam and Rhoads defensive backgrounds. However, offense has shown ZERO improvement. This has been discussed I know but quit using the we are just young right now and recruiting is improving. Its not improving were still dead last almost every year. If you expect us to get above 3 wins in conference with dead last recruiting classes and poor coaching we won't.

Sorry to crap in everyone cheerios but its time to be realistic. The problem isn't recruiting alone or being young, its that we have an incompetent coaching staff. The upset wins are flukes, not a indication of great coaching. Play Nebraska at Nebraska 10 times and we lose 9 of them, play OSU 10 times and I bet they whip us 7-8 times. Just saying, I'm slowly losing faith in this staff. Offseason will be huge. I will continue to donate and go to games but if we don't win 6-8 games next year, the money I spend on football will be going straight to the basketball program. /Rant

 

[CycloneVet]

Give it a rest.

 

[CyCrazy]

STARZ!!!!!

 

[justcynn]

This no talent team you describe went toe to toe with Texas who will likely win the big 12. Injuries are part of football but you can't replace young players with level younger players at almost every key position and expect to win very many games. Fact. Stinks but it's where it is. I just hope they can compete and find some improvement in the remaining games, when the season is over I wouldn't be surprised with some coaching changes either.

 

[Luth4Cy]

][/B]I blame coaching. K-State developed their players, we don't. Have we had any players really improve that greatly during 4 years outside of Knott and Klein? Iowa State is a good place to go if you want your QB dreams to die instantly or be a mediocre RB behind a crap offense.

The following is a sample of players I believe improved a decent amount under Rhoads.

Rumpelhammer (sp?)
Maggitt
Lattimer
Scott
Irving
McDonough
George
Watson
Reeves
Leonard Johnson
Sam Richardson (cornerback)
Tribune
Brackens
Bundrage
Coleman
Ecby
Woody
Nealy
Brun
Osemele
Bykowski
Hicks

 

[IAStubborn]

So everyone is drinking the "We have young talent, and these recruiting classes are awesome"

Does anyone not realize that we have almost been dead last in recruiting in the big 12 the last 3 years?

2011: 9th (2.65 star average)
2012: 10th (2.76 star average)
2013: 9th (2.5 star average)
*Notable: we have one 4 star commit in 2013 in Lazard, thats it.

Dig further, Kansas state has been about the same in their recruiting right near the bottom with us and Kansas. However, K-state was one game away from a national title last year and was solid the previous 2 years. So really, can we blame it on recruiting alone?

I blame coaching. K-State developed their players, we don't. Have we had any players really improve that greatly during 4 years outside of Knott and Klein? Iowa State is a good place to go if you want your QB dreams to die instantly or be a mediocre RB behind a crap offense.

Defense was salty, credit Burnam and Rhoads defensive backgrounds. However, offense has shown ZERO improvement. This has been discussed I know but quit using the we are just young right now and recruiting is improving. Its not improving were still dead last almost every year. If you expect us to get above 3 wins in conference with dead last recruiting classes and poor coaching we won't.

Sorry to crap in everyone cheerios but its time to be realistic. The problem isn't recruiting alone or being young, its that we have an incompetent coaching staff. The upset wins are flukes, not a indication of great coaching. Play Nebraska at Nebraska 10 times and we lose 9 of them, play OSU 10 times and I bet they whip us 7-8 times. Just saying, I'm slowly losing faith in this staff. Offseason will be huge. I will continue to donate and go to games but if we don't win 6-8 games next year, the money I spend on football will be going straight to the basketball program. /Rant

2.93 for 2014 (composite). If you count 4* transfer Montgomery and if we land 4* clinkscales (who we lead for) we will be above a 3* average. That means more 4* than 2*. Also don't know your math skills but the 2013 class had a composite 2.92* average. Which is significantly better than the 2.72 average in 2012 and 2.65 average in 2011. 2013 and 2014 are the BEST isu classes I ever recall and decent by any standard.

 

[GoSTATE71]

2.93 for 2014 (composite). If you count 4* transfer Montgomery and if we land 4* clinkscales (who we lead for) we will be above a 3* average. That means more 4* than 2*. Also don't know your math skills but the 2013 class had a composite 2.92* average.

I was just going off of what rivals listed.

 

[GoSTATE71]

The following is a sample of players I believe improved a decent amount under Rhoads.

Rumpelhammer (sp?)
Maggitt
Lattimer
Scott
Irving
McDonough
George
Watson
Reeves
Leonard Johnson
Sam Richardson (cornerback)
Tribune
Brackens
Bundrage
Coleman
Ecby
Woody
Nealy
Brun
Osemele
Bykowski
Hicks

How many were/are 1st team all Big 12 or 2nd team all Big 12? I'm not saying it to be a smart *** but I'm curious. Osemele? Klein, Knott, KVD? More so, how many were drafted and currently on NFL rosters? 4-5? Just saying..

 

[CyDude16]

Yes, another thread about recruiting! As if no one hasn't missed the umpteenth thread about it!

 

[Luth4Cy]

How many were/are 1st team all Big 12 or 2nd team all Big 12? I'm not saying it to be a smart *** but I'm curious. Osemele? Klein, Knott, KVD? More so, how many were drafted and currently on NFL rosters? 4-5? Just saying..

I'm pretty sure Rumpelhammer, McDonough, Reeves, Bykowski, and LJ besides the ones you mentioned all received some form of all-conference accolades. George and Watson probably will at the end of this season. Others like Bundrage, SR (CB), and Tribune certainly will have opportunities too in the future.

Also, if you look at the 15 K-State players in the NFL, about ten of them were developed in either Snyder's first reign as coach or under Ron Prince. We have 6 players in the NFL, according to the following link. Four of them have been developed primarily under Rhoads.

NFL Players by College - I - National Football League - ESPN

 

[CloneinWDSM]

Redo your rankings after the year. Don't they usually update the stars then?

 

[isutrevman]

Kansas State does a great job recruiting JUCO players. They are helped by the fact that some of the best Junior Colleges are located in Kansas. It seems to me they don't really develop high school players any better than we do. Their best players are usually former Junior College guys. So your point that our coaches suck because they don't develop players like KState coaches, is just wrong.

Also, considering KState is not that good this year, maybe they aren't a great example. Bill Snyder's turn around their is probably the biggest turn around of a program in college football history. To hope someone can do that here is one thing, but to expect it, is stupid.

We are having a bad season, it happens to every program that's ever played. This is the same coaching staff that led us to one of the best 4 year stretches in school history. Do you really think they forgot how to coach? Do you remember the Chizik years where we got to see what bad coaching really looks like?

 

[isutrevman]

How many were/are 1st team all Big 12 or 2nd team all Big 12? I'm not saying it to be a smart *** but I'm curious. Osemele? Klein, Knott, KVD? More so, how many were drafted and currently on NFL rosters? 4-5? Just saying..

How many were highly ranked coming out of high school where you would expect them to be all Big 12 players? None? Just saying. You don't just create talent out of nothing. You can find diamonds in the rough, but you don't create them very often.

 

[IAStubborn]

I am not sure how the services put out their rankings but it doesn't really seem to be based in any objective measure. I took the composite * average for 2013 class for each team to put in perspective:
1. Texas 3.67*
2. OU 3.38*
3. OSU 3.08*
4. Baylor 3.04*
5.Tech 2.96*
6.ISU 2.92* (if you count montgomery we are at 2.96)
7.TCU 2.91*
8. WVU 2.81*
9. KSU 2.79*
10. KU 2.17*

And 2014 is averaging 2.93* so far! Rhoads was behind in talent In 2012 and before as we were 9th or below in composite average. 2013 and 2014 we are legit middle of the pack. The future IS brighter.


Also shows why we have 9 competitive teams.

 

[dualthreat]

Keep dreaming bill Snyder will join our staff. I'll keep dreaming we land some higher rated recruiting classes.

Until I see Iowa state LOSE consistently with highly rated classes I will continue to believe recruiting is our ticket to destiny.

 

[Wesley]

I am not sure how the services put out their rankings but it doesn't really seem to be based in any objective measure. I took the composite * average for 2013 class for each team to put in perspective:
1. Texas 3.67*
2. OU 3.38*
3. OSU 3.08*
4. Baylor 3.04*
5.Tech 2.96*
6.ISU 2.92* (if you count montgomery we are at 2.96)
7.TCU 2.91*
8. WVU 2.81*
9. KSU 2.79*
10. KU 2.17*

And 2014 is averaging 2.93* so far! Rhoads was behind in talent In 2012 and before as we were 9th or below in composite average. 2013 and 2014 we are legit middle of the pack. The future IS brighter.


Also shows why we have 9 competitive teams.

e
Now we just need an OC

 

[Rhoadhoused]

Basically this is what recruiting for ISU comes down to with all the inherent, inescapable disadvantages we have in recruiting:

UT
OU

OSU
BU
TCU
TTech

WVU

ISU (after)
KState
KU



ISU (Before)

 

[im4cyclones]

K-State recruiting

2013: 23 commits... 6 JuCo
2012: 26 commits... 6 JuCo
2011: 34 commits... 8 JuCo, 3 Transfers
2010: 28 commits... 12 JuCo, 2 Tranfers
2009: 32 commits... 8 JuCo, 3 Transfers

Plus they seem to recruit a TON of late qualifiers. Not exactly sure what that means but it would seem they are taking a chance on risky signees. (4 LQ in 2009, 5 in 2010, 5 in 2011, 7 in 2012, 4 in 2013)

For comparison, we signed 22 JuCo players during the same time (2009-2013), 0 transfers and 1 LQ (Nick Kron). This is all according to ESPN.

 

[IAStubborn]

Basically this is what recruiting for ISU comes down to with all the inherent, inescapable disadvantages we have in recruiting:

UT
OU

OSU
BU
TCU
TTech

WVU

ISU (after)
KState
KU



ISU (Before)

But this year and last it has been closer to between tech and wvu. The big difference between the true averages and their rankings is I am quessing they weight the positions. We still lack that high level QB.

 

[Rhoadhoused]

But this year and last it has been closer to between tech and wvu. The big difference between the true averages and their rankings is I am quessing they weight the positions. We still lack that high level QB.

I'd say that is fair. Placing WVU is hard since they are new. But I'd say other than that the tiers are pretty easy to identify. And this is just rankings wise. KSU is always going to outperform their rankings with Snyder as coach, UT has been disappointing obviously, we know first hand the kind of athletes Baylor is bring in, ect.