Plane on a Treadmill
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As interesting as it would be to read through hundreds of posts, i don't have the time...but I do teach JH and HS science and if the plane is not actually moving and the wheels are just turning in place on the treadmill, it wouldn't matter how fast the plane is going, it will not take flight.
This is explained by Bernoulli's principle. The reason airplanes and birds are able to fly is because the air travels faster over the top of the wing(curved part) which creates higher pressure below the wing and lower pressure above the wing, which leads to "lift."
I am fairly certain that the plane would not be able to take off. :skeptical:
This is explained by Bernoulli's principle. The reason airplanes and birds are able to fly is because the air travels faster over the top of the wing(curved part) which creates higher pressure below the wing and lower pressure above the wing, which leads to "lift."
I am fairly certain that the plane would not be able to take off. :skeptical:
Also, if the plane is on the treadmill it would not actually be moving to any reference point off of the treadmill, and I don't believe there would be any kind of wind, increase/decrease in pressure above and below the wing, etc. It only appears that it's moving to the reference point of the belt and nothing else. No lift(EDIT) would be generated.
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Please read the rest of the thread before you fill your students' heads with misinformation. :biglaugh:
In fact, this would be a great question to pose to them in class. Just make sure you know the answer first.
Cool, what a terrible reply with absolutely no information as to how I'm wrong. I would love to hear how what I said is wrong. Also, I never said I was 100% right, I'm pretty sure I said I'm "fairly certain."
Aren't they going to start the engine while on the treadmill? If the engine is going while on the treadmill . . . it should take off. A friend of mine is an aerospace engineer, and believes the plane should still take off. It just has a little more resistance to overcome.
I thought this same thing at first, but the wheels of the plane aren't what is propelling the plane. The jet engines propell the plane using friction against the air. So the plane will move forward. The only thing the treadmill will do is make the wheels spin faster.
Why does this thread not have at least a fly or no fly poll? Lets get our stuff together moderators.
Forget the poll - let's go straight to CyBookie on what the Mythbusters show will find out when aired on wed-nes-day?!?!?
ISUCYCLONE4, we have been asking for sometime for that. It's not going to happen. I would be willing to be my left testicle that it would fly.
Do me a favor - find a die cast car and place it on top of a sheet of looseleaf paper. Pull the sheet of paper out from underneath the car. What happens? The car stays relatively in the same place on the desk (it might move back about an inch or so due to the friction of the paper overcoming the force of gravity on the vehicle, but it's not moving back the 3-5 feet your arm moves back). Next, put the car back on the sheet of paper, but this time as you pull the sheet out from under the car give the car a gentile push with your other hand. The car will move forward (in this case, your other hand is providing thrust to the car in a similar fashion as a jet would provide thrust to a plane). The reason why the plane WILL take off is because wind will be forced across the wing simply because the plane is going to move forward, regardless of whether the plane is on solid ground or it's on a treadmill with the tread traveling at takeoff speed. This is because the wheels rotate freely. If you applied no thrust to the plane whatsoever and the treadmill moved at takeoff speed, the wheels will spin at takeoff speed in the opposite direction with no other forces other than friction and gravity working on the plane. Once you add thrust, the plane will move forward.
How about taking the time to read through the thread instead of asking someone to take the time to repost everything in the thread. Your initial take on the concept is wrong, as was mine. Think it through and read through the thread.
Yeah, let's just go ahead and rehash 27 pages of information because you can't be bothered to read it.
I've read through much of it, and it seems it's all the same crap. The examples of cars moving forward does not relate in any way to how a plane takes off. Where is the wind, which is needed for take off, magically coming from. The plane is stationary on the treadmill and there is no air moving over the wings, thus no lift. Have you ever run on a treadmill before? You do not feel a breeze in your face because you are stationary relative to the earth.
We've been over the differences between us running on a treadmill and a plane on a treadmill multiple, multiple times.
Try this if you have a treadmill at home. Put on some rollerblades an jump on the treadmill, now have your wife or someone give you a push from behind. Do you move forward?
And I agree, a car moving forward has nothing to do with this, that's kind of the point. A plane moves in much different ways than a car. Can I request for my son to never have you for science?
How about this.... WHAT is magically going to keep the plane stationary on the treadmill? The wheels on the plane are freewheeling......
Think about it.
I've seen the light as well. The treadmill does nothing (at least any real world treadmill) to prevent the plane from moving forward. The plane will move forward easily will only a small amount of extra resistance. When the plane takes off, it will take off at normal take-off speeds even the the wheels touching the treadmill will be going 2 times as fast as normal.
The wheels decouple the plane from the surface. What the surface is doing and what the plane is doing are independent of each other. The movement of the plane is something that occurs between the plane and the air. It has nothing to do with the ground.
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