The charge calls

[andymhallman]

I counted four charging calls against ISU in the Drake game, plus another offensive foul against McGee for hooking. Percy alone got two charge calls. I don't remember his first but his second looked like a flop. Niang's charge was too far under the basket and it was to a secondary defender, which I thought was not considered a charge according to the new rule, but even without the new rule it would have still been a close call. The defender who took Clyburn's charge was outside the circle but he looked to still be moving his feet at the time.

The point of this thread is not just to harp on the refs, who I did not think were terrible or biased against ISU other than that they called charges too easily.

What I'm interested in is statistics on charges. My impression is that Iowa State seems to commit a lot of them while the team rarely draws them on defense. In fact, I had that impression about last year's team, too. Does anybody keep stats on team charges specifically? What about offensive fouls in general?

 

[KFitzy87]

One reason is the type of on-ball defense we play. Our posts swat alot as opposed to trying to draw charges

 

[kingcy]

That always seems to happen vs MVC teams. In many cases the charge is such a BS call. A player gets beat and to help out and defend the basket a big slides in on or under a player going to score and gets a charge call. I bet if you watch BB games 9 out of 10 times a charge happens because a player got beat. Yes if you back in on a player or going one on one with him and he is set while you go to score, then yes it is a charge. But this calling charges as guys go full speed to an open basket and some guy sliding in is BS.

 

[zwclones51]

Royce was good for 1-2 charges a game last year. Looks like Percy or Clyborn is taking that role over

 

[cyguytillidie]

I thought the officiating was terrible. Not biased but definitely terrible.

 

[Erik4Cy]

I thought the officiating was terrible. Not biased but definitely terrible.

It really was. I dread the officiating when playing an MVC opponent..just do not care for the brand of basketball that comes of out there and for some reason I feel like we are complaining about some really bad or ticky-tack fouls as opposed to big 12 conference play.

 

[nfrine]

Drake had 31 fouls. We had 21. We got the better end of the deal.

 

[ISUAlum2002]

Drake had 31 fouls. We had 21. We got the better end of the deal.

Don't kid yourself....a lot of Drake's fouls came late in the game as they started fouling with a lot of time left to try to get back into the game.

Drake's game plan was very similar to last year's (and hey, it worked then, why not now?). That plan is to not go after the offensive boards at all and instead run back on defense and get set, so as to prevent fast break opportunities for us. A by-product of that plan is that their guys were in position to just stand there like logs as our guys came toward the basket. It was obvious that their guys were coached to hit the deck at any sort of contact, and the refs were falling for it.

 

[Rural]

It's really hard to see the value of the arc thing in front of the rim. Those guys were going to hit the deck every time anyone made a move in a little bit of traffic.

I think that's what made it "bad" officiating, they called it close, then not so close, and close again.

With the way they called the game, their whole roster could have been gone through by the 10 minute mark of the second half.

 

[ruxCYtable]

Clyburn's charge was outside the circle be he looked to still be moving his feet at the time.

I didn't get to watch the game so I can't comment on the officiating in general. But in regards to your comment, this absolutely does not matter. The myth that a defender has to be perfectly set to draw a charge has been put forth by TV commentators who have never read a rule book. There is nothing -- repeat: nothing -- in the rule book that says a defender has to be set to draw a charge. As long as the defender is not moving toward the offensive player, torso-to-torso contact is a charge.

 

[CyCloned]

The charges were pretty bad, but whatg was really making me mad was all the moving screens by Drake. They would have their big guy set a pick at the top of the key and then when the Drake player came by to scrape the defender off the screener stepped into the ISU defender, sometimes two or three steps into the defender after making contact. I think they got called for it one time.

As far as the number of fouls, Drake earned every foul called on them. They were getting beat off the dribble quite a bit. There were a few tick-tack fouls on them, but ISU had several of those too.

 

[kilroy]

Don't kid yourself....a lot of Drake's fouls came late in the game as they started fouling with a lot of time left to try to get back into the game.

Drake's game plan was very similar to last year's (and hey, it worked then, why not now?). That plan is to not go after the offensive boards at all and instead run back on defense and get set, so as to prevent fast break opportunities for us. A by-product of that plan is that their guys were in position to just stand there like logs as our guys came toward the basket. It was obvious that their guys were coached to hit the deck at any sort of contact, and the refs were falling for it.

LOL, excellent analysis. True and right.

 

[cycloneG]

The charges were pretty bad, but whatg was really making me mad was all the moving screens by Drake. They would have their big guy set a pick at the top of the key and then when the Drake player came by to scrape the defender off the screener stepped into the ISU defender, sometimes two or three steps into the defender after making contact. I think they got called for it one time.

As far as the number of fouls, Drake earned every foul called on them. They were getting beat off the dribble quite a bit. There were a few tick-tack fouls on them, but ISU had several of those too.

Completely agree about the moving screens. Drake players were literally pushing ISU players all over the court and were only called once. It was how their guards kept getting into the lane. Very frustrating.

 

[Wesley]

That always seems to happen vs MVC teams. In many cases the charge is such a BS call. A player gets beat and to help out and defend the basket a big slides in on or under a player going to score and gets a charge call. I bet if you watch BB games 9 out of 10 times a charge happens because a player got beat. Yes if you back in on a player or going one on one with him and he is set while you go to score, then yes it is a charge. But this calling charges as guys go full speed to an open basket and some guy sliding in is BS.

Yep, MVC teaches these her boys to draw charges. They seem to hustle more on defense and have less talent.

 

[HFCS]

Officiating wasn't overly against ISU, but Niang's "charge" was the worst call of the game by a mile.

He just completely schooled two Drake defenders, neither were set, the main contact was inside the area, Drake player falls down because he got killed. 3 point play turned into a charge. I don't know how players keep their cool when that happens, I'm sure I'd have went off.

 

[pdxclone]

View attachment 16984

 

[Freebird]

View attachment 16984

Troy Skinner and Jess Settles are jealous of that guy's flopping ability. That was a freaking legendary performance yesterday.

 

[Dryburn]

The officiating was terrible, probably the worst so far this year.

I think part of the reasons for the charge calls though was that ISU was probably as agressive driving to the basket, or trying to get it into the post players as they have been this year. That's a good thing, but the players need to learn to avoid the charges. Another factor was that Drake was getting back on defense (by abandoning the offensive rebounding) and was usually set so there were few chances for fast break points for ISU.

 

[jj-cyclones]

The refs were consisting calling EVERYTHING on both teams... the game never really got into a flow and was tough to watch because I was just anticipating the next whistle. Really hate how the game was officiated yesterday. Seems to be the common theme with that group of officials.

 

[IcSyU]

If someone could cite the rulebook where someone has to be "set" to draw an offensive foul that'd be great.

You can pick out people who don't understand basketball pretty quickly with 2 big things:
a) There is no such thing as "over the back."
b) There is no requirement that you have to be "set" to draw a charge.

The first charge on Percy was an offensive foul. It should be called more when the shoulder is used to clear space. The second was solid acting. A couple were legitimate, a couple were bang-bang, and a couple were just terrible calls.