...and yet apparently you shook all of JB's horribl;e throws in the bowl game from memory. Odd. :eek:[/QUOTE said:
How would you compare JB to SJ
- Thread starter FootballinTexas
- Start date
When it comes to fumbles, why don't you just split if 50/50 or whatever the avg percentage of fumbles that is usually recovered by the offense and defense, respectively?
I would guess the offense recovers 60% and the defense 40% maybe? That's just a shot in the dark.
This. I think that Jantz is the better throwing QB. He has better touch and a stronger arm. But, he makes some stupid mistakes and puts the defense in bad position with his turnovers. Barnett is MUCH better at the zone read. Jantz just doesn't run it as well and isn't the threat to keep it that Barnett is. Then again, when Barnett got hit vs OU, he was never the same and quit keeping the ball. Both are plenty elusive in the pocket.
To me, it comes down to a couple things:
1. How big a part of Messingham's offense will the zone read be?
2. Can Jantz eliminate his turnover issues?
If Jantz can clean up the turnovers, IMO he's the clear starter...unless Richardson blows everyone away.
demoncore1031
Well-Known Member
arm strength shouldnt be an issue when we really dont have many deep threat WRs/TEs anyways. i just watched the okie st game and was very impressed by some of JBs throws. the one where he escaped and lofted a short pass to woody was nice. the td pass to gary was amazing! he didnt have much of a window and put it in the one spot he could for that to be caught. i like JB at this point because i like how he runs the zone read and jantz didnt seem comfortable running it.
kinda wish we could take the best attributes of each QB and make into 1... jantz seems better at escaping pressure, while JB is a better runner in space. accuracy is about even.
kinda wish we could take the best attributes of each QB and make into 1... jantz seems better at escaping pressure, while JB is a better runner in space. accuracy is about even.
I'm not going to analyze the exact details, but I will say this: it's close enough that whoever makes the most improvement from the end of last season to the beginning of this one will be the starter.
When you look at the amount of fumbles JB had, it was just dumb luck they didn't lead to more turnovers.
Now, a fumble problem isn't the mental issue that throwing lots of picks is, but it hurts the team just as much.
If we go down this road, we might as well subtract passes tipped by the receivers and add passes that hit the defenders in the hands to the interception numbers.
They both have some glaring weaknesses. I am not expecting any jump in success from an ISU squad until we see a jump in production and consistency from the QB position.
This is so true. I'm not confident with either one right now unless they have improved a LOT. I'm really hoping that Richardson shocks everyone and wins the job.
That bowl game last year was dreadful by both QB's. We can't win with either guy if they play like that, that's all I know. Neither one could complete a pass to a wide open receiver in that bowl game to save their life. Sorry, they just couldn't and we all know it.
Neither guy really had a single game they could brag about, other than maybe Barnett against OSU. I know some will point to SJ's win over Iowa, but he made a ton of mistakes in that game too. He never did anything within the offense, it was all ad lib.
One thing Rhoads said this spring that kinda bothered me is that neither running ability or passing ability is more important to him in the QB position... both are equal. Personally, I'd rather have a great passer that's a slightly below average runner than a guy that's just kinda good at doing both.
Yes, our offense does require the QB to be an effective runner, but we MUST have a guy that is an accurate passer IMO. What good is it if our QB can't hit wide open guys? What good are those WR bubble screens we run all the time when both SJ and JB throw the ball at their shoelaces or behind them? I just go berserk every time I see our WR on those quick screens have to reach way down to get the ball or way behind them, and it completely blows up the play.
QB play really hurt us last year IMO. Most games the QB play was a net negative IMO.... meaning it hurt us more than it helped us. That MUST change this year in order to even think about winning 6 or more games. I really think that the most accurate passer needs to win the job. Lack of accuracy just killed this team last year, both in incompletions and in interceptions.
I think I recall seeing a stat where it is actually pretty close to 50/50 like you said above.
I think if you are going to count fumbles not lost as TOs because of the luck factor, then you would need to also count the passes that are thrown right to a defender and they drop them. That would be a hard one to figure out.
Only clonedude could look at Jantz's performance against Iowa and say it was "nothing to brag about".
I dont understand how you guys are thinking that Sam is going to be in this race this year. By what Rhoads said earlier this week was he was pretty far behind SJ and JB in the competition.
Yeah... that's what worries me. I just hope either JB or SJ have improved dramatically over last year's bowl game. Our QB play in that game was a laughing stock.... bad news bears kinda bad.
I thought it was interesting to compare Coach Rhoad's comments (about Sam Richardson) in the written transcript of the interview versus listening to the video of the interview. In the written interview, to me, it sounded if Sam Richardson was not presently in the competition for the starting position. After watching the video interview, I got the impression that Coach Rhoads thought that Sam was signigicantly behind the other two because of their game experience (and that Sam would have to overcome that advantage).
I'm sure that Sam will get his chances this Spring.
I'm sure that Sam will get his chances this Spring.
Correct. CPR said the QB's are going to be evaluated on the criteria of decision making and accuracy (not necessarily in that order). Though the general consensus has Jantz with a stronger arm it doesn't matter in this offense.
So if JB is considered having similar accuracy and better decision making than Jantz that puts him a little ahead of him. Jantz might be a better athlete but JB has shown he is athletic enough to be productive on the ground.
For Jantz to be the starter then he need to either improve his accuracy and/or decision making. I'm not sure how much one can improve their accuracy. It seems to me that some gains can be made but probably not a substantial improvement will be realized. The greatest gain then will have to come from his decision making.
By the start of the season if Jantz shows that he is similar to JB in accuracy and decision making only then will his arm strength come into play. If not then JB will be the starter.
im going to make some illogical jumps to conclusions here, but i say we might have won the bowl game had JB completed that 3rd and short pass to a wide open Josh Lenz on the first (or second) drive of the game. We would have had it first and goal and likely would have punched it in and started the game ahead 10-0.
+ Momentum swing
+ Confidence
+ JB staying in for the whole game more probable
"Illogical"??? No, no, I think that you mean "rationalizing".... :biggrin:
The fact remains that he didn't complete it, that for some reason his mechanics were off, which had absolutely nothing to do with confidence...
Fortunately, however much people want to debate, the QB choice will be made based upon what the respective players do between now and September, not what happened last season.
