CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
Iowa. That's really it, Telephone Trophy or not. Really, in Mizzou's case, shouldn't we know it's a rival without seeing it on a video game?
ISU Football Rivalries
- Thread starter CyFan61
- Start date
I guess that depends on what you mean, in terms of "brand name" at this point I would say no your right but Minn was a power house in college football but look at them now. Now if your talking about money Iowa is the 11th biggest money generating school in the country right behind Florida and Neb.
It's not bad at all. Kinda similar to Ames, but a little smaller, starts a little later and is slightly more restrictive (have to dump booze in cups, etc).
The area around BSFS is very "scrubby". Not rundown, but you don't feel like you're at a college football game. You're on the complete edge of town and there's open country all to the north. We tailgated in a lot that was used as a sheep pasture for the university's ovine research (or so I assume) 6 days a week. They were actually chasing the sheep out of the lot when we drove by it looking for tailgating spots.
It's an easy road trip, KSU fans are pretty friendly, and it's a pretty good time. I'd recommend it and may be going down this year too.
I'm talking about mutual relevance. Nebraska fans see themselves as "above" Iowa and won't treat it differently than say the Michigan State game even though Iowa fans will see it as the biggest game on their schedule.
I highly doubt Nebraska sees Iowa as their biggest game on an annual basis.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
YOU CAN'T CALL IOWA #1 UNLESS UR A HOK OR DIRTY HOK-LOVER!:realmad:
I hope people see through this.
Your right about that Neb fans have the most overblown ego of any fan base I have ever met, but there opinion will change if or when Iowa starts beating them. If they lose the Iowa game this Nov. don’t think Iowa fans will let them forget it. They will have to listen to Hawkeye fans rub it in their faces for a whole year and they won’t be able to get away because the two fan bases live so close together.
CycloneErik
Well-Known Member
We all look forward to the lovely picture of those two fanbases when they interact. It might make kindergarten seem mature.
Colorado beat them plenty, and won national titles. Nebraska never respected them. Iowa hasn't won the conference outright in years. I don't see why Nebraska would respect them any more than Colorado. Especially when Nebraska fans swarm Iowa City and Iowa fans do what they do to fans of schools they hate.
I don't know what you mean by "take off" but the ISU/Iowa rivalry is pretty damn big deal for those involved. It's the biggest party in the state every year, no matter which town it's in. It's all anyone talks about for about 2 weeks before hand. It's a pretty damn big deal.
This comment would indicate you believe that UNL will get back to the level that they were under Bob Devaney & Dr. Tom - I don't ever see that happening. Quite frankly, I don't see UNL being much better/more consistent than Iowa/Wisconsin from here on. They may be a bit better, but that is simply because of their strong recruiting presence in California, but overall, they have TON of disadvantages today that they didn't have when they were a dominant program from 1962-2001. I'm not saying UNL will respect Iowa more than they did Colorado, but UNL was a MUCH better football program than Colorado for 40 years - I'm not certain UNL will be a much better football program than Iowa in the next 40 years.
UNL had a number of advantages back in the day that really propelled them to the level of a national championship caliber program. I authored this elsewhere, but the same applies here. I was discussing on another message board why Iowa/Wisconsin would never display the level of dominance that UNL did over the course of their 40 year dynasty, and at the same time, why UNL would likely never display that same level of dominance again:
1. A freakishly long streak of good coaching luck - From 1962 to 1997 Nebraska had 2 coachs - Bob Devaney & Tom Osborne. Those two guys had it put together better than any other back-to-back coaching coaching tandem in the entire history of the sport - Devaney came in and started the modern era dynasty (and his timing was impeccable, more on that in a moment), then handed it off to Osborne without it ever missing a beat. I readily admit this is something that *could* conceivably happen at Wisconsin or Iowa - but I can't think of another similar tandem in the history of the sport (nor has any coach at Iowa or Wisconsin ever had the high level of success that either of these two achieved @ UNL). I should note that it is highly unlikely that UNL ever sees this kind of success from two coaches in the history of its program again due to points #2 & #3.
2. Hollywood All Stars - In the 20 years prior to Bob Devaney (1941-1961) UNL was pretty terrible. In fact, according to Stassen.com, they rated 126 out of 133 in terms of winning percentage for division IA schools over that span of time (comparatively speaking, Wisconsin rated 51 & Iowa rated 82 over this same time span). Over that same time span, teams like Army, Southern Miss, Michigan State, & Miami-Ohio were all top 10 football teams in terms of winning percentage, and Ivy league schools (in the 30's & 40's especially) were some of the biggest powers in college football (and they fell off largely due to point 2 & 3). UNL's fortune changed due to an incredible new technology in the 1950's that completely transformed college football - television. Coinciding with the introduction of television in the late 1950's/early 1960's, UNL made an out of the park coaching hire that would forever change their program's history - they hired Bob Devaney. In 1961, UNL went 3-6-1 under Bill Jennings, in 1962 (Devaney's first year), UNL went 9-2 - and that was only the start of things to come - in the 20 years prior to Devaney's hiring, UNL had a measly .368% win percentage (which rated 126 out of 133 in the country). In the 10 years that Devaney coached (1962-1972) UNL had the #1 rated winning percentage in the country with a .829%.
It truly was one of the greatest turn arounds in the history of college football - and you better believe that the TV networks wanted to tell the story. As I mentioned, UNL's turnaround coincided with the introduction of televised college football - and there was no program in the country that was a bigger benefactor of the new technology. Essentially, even though UNL was a program that was 500+ miles away from any recruiting hotbed, they were able to walk into a recruits home and say "son, if you want to be on TV, come to Nebraksa". There were a VERY short list of programs that could do that:
Notre Dmae
Texas
Oklahoma
Michigan
Ohio State
Penn State
USC
Nebraska
Alabama
That's pretty much it. If you weren't on that list, you were lucky to be on TV once per year (and you probably weren't), but the above teams were on TV 2-4 times per year and that was a monumental advantage that ensured the programs above remained blue bloods. Iowa and Wisconsin never got on that list, and thus, they never achieved the level of success that any of those programs did because they couldn't use television as a recruiting tool. Had Bob Devaney not been hired, or UNL's 20 years with a .368 win percentage happened between 1962-1982 rather than 1941-1961, UNL probably would never have become the power they were, but they made a great hire at the right time, and as they say, the rest is history.
Now, as I mentioned in my initial post, I see this working AGAINST UNL in the future (as well as UM/ND - or any northern school for that matter that tries to recruit the south). UNL can't use this tool anymore - kids in FLA or Texas can go to USF or Texas Tech and be on TV just as much as UNL players are (with lesser facilities, but TV wise, the playing field is leveled). This is one major reason I never see UNL getting back to the level of program they were in the 60's-90's (and the same applies to UM/ND - though ND has a greater recruiting base nationally due to its unique independence & UM has a much better home state recruiting base than UNL - so UNL is much worse off than those two).
3. Then to the Partial Qualifiers - UNL made a living on recruits that were just outside of some major programs academic appetite (such as ND/USC/Texas/Etc.) - every school would "bend the rules" for a major recruit, supposedly, UNL could "bend" more than anyone else. That won't be the case anymore, and that is another major recruiting disadvantage to them because now they have to recruit the same players as Iowa/Wisconsin type programs - they can't bend the rules for a better recruit that can't be admitted elsewhere.
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hawkfan, you make one giant mistake:
You assume that Nebraska fans' egos are going to dwindle if they don't get back to their hey day. Unlikely. Nebraska football really is an unnatural source of pride in that state. People take it really seriously (much more so than fans of either school in Iowa) and it is their life.
Nebraska is going to have to decline dramatically to ever view Iowa (or anyone in that division save Michigan) as a rival, which is unlikely. Over the past decade the Big 12 has been better on the field than the Big 10, and Nebraska has been rising from their rock bottom in the early part of the last decade. They probably won't go back to being a Top 5 program, but they can get back to being a Top 15 program, and their collective heads aren't getting any smaller.
Nebraska fans make Iowa fans look humble.
You assume that Nebraska fans' egos are going to dwindle if they don't get back to their hey day. Unlikely. Nebraska football really is an unnatural source of pride in that state. People take it really seriously (much more so than fans of either school in Iowa) and it is their life.
Nebraska is going to have to decline dramatically to ever view Iowa (or anyone in that division save Michigan) as a rival, which is unlikely. Over the past decade the Big 12 has been better on the field than the Big 10, and Nebraska has been rising from their rock bottom in the early part of the last decade. They probably won't go back to being a Top 5 program, but they can get back to being a Top 15 program, and their collective heads aren't getting any smaller.
Nebraska fans make Iowa fans look humble.
My point is, in terms of program prestige, there is about as big of gap between UNL & Iowa as there is between Iowa & ISU. Very few Iowa fans considered ISU/Iowa to be much of a rivalry in the 80's or 90's because Iowa had a hugely lopsided win streak - much like UNL Vs. Colorado (UNL was 34-5-1 against Colorado from 1962-2001). However, in the last decade it has become much more of a rivalry. Why? Because ISU started winning some games rather than losing all of them.
UNL never considered Colorado a rival because Colorado only beat them 5 times in four decades - that has nothing to do with an ego - that simply has to do with Colorado being non competitive with UNL. Rivalries aren't rivalries if one team wins all the time.
Given UNL's new situation, I find it HIGHLY unlikely that they will have a .862 win % against Iowa over the course of the next 40 years - thus I'd be willing to bet they are much more likely to consider Iowa a rival than they would have Colorado.
Iowa is our biggest rival and there's no one else even close. Nebraska was never a rival for us. Rivalry takes two to tango and Nebraska never saw us as a rival. I don't think the telephone trophy makes Missouri a rival. Generally you need some kind of competitiveness to make a rivalry and our football program hasn't exactly competed with many schools.
I do love how people are proclaiming Iowa/Nebraska huge. Yippee, a border game. How is that different than Illinois, Minnesota, or Wisconsin? The game has little history. Iowa is going to have a rivalry game every week pretty soon between Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Ohio State (<- had a hawk fan tell me last week that Iowa/Ohio State was going to overtake Michigan/Ohio State as the biggest rivalry game).
I do love how people are proclaiming Iowa/Nebraska huge. Yippee, a border game. How is that different than Illinois, Minnesota, or Wisconsin? The game has little history. Iowa is going to have a rivalry game every week pretty soon between Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Ohio State (<- had a hawk fan tell me last week that Iowa/Ohio State was going to overtake Michigan/Ohio State as the biggest rivalry game).
Even if it's competitive, I don't see Nebraska getting more into the Iowa game than most of the other Big 10 games. It isn't me slighting Iowa, it's just the way Husker fans are. You guys keep taking it as some dis to Iowa because "how dare anyone suggest that Nebraska/Iowa will be anything less than a beloved and respected Nationally relevant rivalry" but due Nebraska's arrogance (which is no fault of Iowa) I just can't see Husker fans placing any more importance or significance on this game than any other one.
IcSyU said:
I've heard crap like that from Hawk fans quite a bit too. Statements like this are why ISU fans think Iowa fans are insufferably arrogant.
Maybe not, however, I think they would get into the game more so than they did the Colorado game - I never mentioned anything about the other Big 10 games.
You brought up the Colorado example, and I think there is a pretty sound logic behind why the Iowa/UNL game would be bigger for UNL fans than the UNL/Colorado game.
Valid points.
There's been a condition of parity in the B10 since PSU joined and I wouldn't be surprised to see UNL look like PSU in twenty years, who knows?
BUT I can't help but find it ironic that a Hawk fan applies this to UNL but conveniently omits Iowa. Ferentz only owns shared titles. A split league makes this impossible going forward. Adding UNL further dilutes the championship pool.
It's funny you mention coaching luck since Iowa is in the midst of their own historic 1-2 punch. Did you see the list of overpaid coaches on Bleacher Report? I know, I know, it's garbage but it brings up a valid point by being exactly WRONG which is Ferentz is a bargain at nearly any price if you're a program like Iowa. Iowa is a bad hire away from being Minnesota.
The partial qualifier thing just cracks me up. This is one of the votes UNL fans fail to mention when discussing mean old UT and their "lap dogs". It is indeed another reason UNL probably won't be UNL again.
You do realize I used this argument to prove why Iowa will NEVER be an elite program, right? I used this argument specifically to include why programs like Iowa/Wisconsin/UNL will never be like Texas/Florida/USC. I am confused by what you are trying to say above that I didn't already say, and if you read the post, you clearly see that I didn't omit Iowa.
Further, your comparison of Fry/Ferentz to Devaney/Osborne would be like me claiming that Garth Brooks and Taylor Swift are comparable singers. Fry/Ferentz haven't accomplished 1/10th of what Devaney/Osborne did at UNL.
Ha, sorry, I need to explain myself. In my haste to respond to your quality but long post I didn't respond correctly. Yes, we agree. I'm talking about some posts I've seen on HN that intimate UNL will be diluted but don't mention the impact on Iowa.
You're actually right on about my Devaney/Osborne - Fry/Ferentz comment which is that Fry/Ferentz have taken UI as far as they're going to go and that's pretty damn good for a program like Iowa. It's relative; I don't think UNL will be UNL again and I don't think UI will be UI again after Ferentz.
