of the gentlemen penciled in the first string or potential starters on the current football squad, how many starters are chizzlestick's recruits and how many are paul rhoads recruits????anyone care to make a stab at the above question?thank you.
cyclone starters on football team
- Thread starter woodie
- Start date
Defense
Lattimer- CPR
Reump-chizdick
McDonough-chizdick
Laing-chizdick
Maggit-chizdick
Knott-CPR
Ta'fo'ou-CPR
Klein-chizdick
Johnson- chizdick
Reeves-chizdick
Benton-chizdick
Washington-chizdick
Offense
Tiller-chizdick
Jantz-CPR
Barnett- CPR
Johnson/Woody/Hollis-CPR
White-chizdick
Money-chizdick
Lenz-chizdick
Horne- CPR
Darks-chizdick
KO-chizdick
Tuftee-chizdick
Farniok/Tautolo-CPR
Hicks-chizdick
Burris-chizdick
Special Teams
Vanderkamp-CPR
Mahoney-chizdick
I named possible starters as there are a few position battles. Also, guys like Klein, Money, and Reeves were recruited and committed to ISU before the coaching change and stated that they never wavered. chizdick did the footwork and got them to commit to the school so I give him credit. They would have been here if he stayed but if Rhoads was here we don't know if he would have recruited them let alone land them. Rhoads did have to keep them here but they were Cyclones before he got here.
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QB- Tiller (Chizik), Jantz (Rhoads)
RB-Shontrelle (Rhoads)
TE-Hammer (Chizik), Brun (Rhoads), Howard (Rhoads)
OT-Osemele (Chizik)
OG-Tuftee (Chizik) Dika (Rhoads)
OC-Farniok (Rhoads) Tuatolo (Rhoads)
OG-Hicks (Chizik)
OT-Burris (Chizik)
WR-Lenz (Both), Reynolds (Rhoads), Darks (Chizik)
DE-Lattimer (Rhoads)
DT-Rump (Chizik)
DT-Laing (Chizik)
DE-Maggitt (Chizik)
LB-Knott (Rhoads)
LB-Klein (Both)
LB-George (Rhoads), Taufoou (Rhoads)
CB-Johnson (Chizik)
S-Benton (Chizik)
S-Washington (Both)
CB-Reeves (Both)
My attempt giving credit for the 2009 class to both that were commited before the coaching change, since technically it was both.
RB-Shontrelle (Rhoads)
TE-Hammer (Chizik), Brun (Rhoads), Howard (Rhoads)
OT-Osemele (Chizik)
OG-Tuftee (Chizik) Dika (Rhoads)
OC-Farniok (Rhoads) Tuatolo (Rhoads)
OG-Hicks (Chizik)
OT-Burris (Chizik)
WR-Lenz (Both), Reynolds (Rhoads), Darks (Chizik)
DE-Lattimer (Rhoads)
DT-Rump (Chizik)
DT-Laing (Chizik)
DE-Maggitt (Chizik)
LB-Knott (Rhoads)
LB-Klein (Both)
LB-George (Rhoads), Taufoou (Rhoads)
CB-Johnson (Chizik)
S-Benton (Chizik)
S-Washington (Both)
CB-Reeves (Both)
My attempt giving credit for the 2009 class to both that were commited before the coaching change, since technically it was both.
I diagree witht he "both". One thing chizdick did was tell kids not to commit unless they were 100%. He did the ground work for those guys and he had most of them committed by October. Those guys were coming here no matter what. He sold them on ISU. Guys like Klein, Money, and Reeves never waivered on their committments. They were quoted as saying they never waivered.
BTW- Money was a chizdick commit or by your dfinition, both.
In all fairness, Chiz's recruits that are left are obviously the upperclassmen. When he took over, the majority of starters were DMac's guys. CPR has only had 2 full classes--those guys will start to make their way into the two deeps this year.
Just don't want to give Eugene any more credit than he's already taken for any success ISU has going forward.
Just don't want to give Eugene any more credit than he's already taken for any success ISU has going forward.
Yup. Chizik got some good players and they are coming of age now. So in one area, he did his job at a satisfactory level. Nothing more.
I know people don't want to give chizdick any credit but guys pike Klein Reump, Johnson, Lain, Lens, Maggie, etc all made major contributions as Fresh and Soph. so they were beating out DMacs Jrs and srs.
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You should try to explain a little bit more what you mean by major contributions. And maybe proofread before posting too.
Damn auto correct. KO, Johnson, Benton, Klein, Reump, Lenz, Haughton, etc. All saw significant time as Fr and Soph. That is a fact. Heck they were some of our best players last year. Three are considered NFL prospects, Haughton would be one as well as possibly Klein. They played ahead of upperclassmen. They made significant contributions to the team as underclassmen.
On top of that, we have had no one drafted in the last two years. That really underscores the lack of talent in DMac's last couple of classes. I am a big DMac fan and not necessarily a chizdick fan but of you look at it objectively, he brought in some pretty good guys. Not to mention he was in on some higher rated guys right before he left.
Sorry for the lack of proofread...small screen
Don't worry about the proofread. We knew what you meant and I got a good laugh out of it.
The Chiz brought in some good players especially when he grabbed HS players. One of his problems was that he tried to make a splash by signing a few too many JuCos that didn't do much. His transition class I think he just grabben anyone he could because he only had a short time to do so. The second year I think he wanted to win as much as possible to help his resume. Those JuCos that didn't pan out really hurt the team when they were here and also killed our depth when CPR took over which is why we have such a thin LB and DL corps.
The Chiz had his moments in recruiting though, I will give you that.
Agree on the JUCOs but I am not sure that is any different than most coaches when they come in late. CPR did a similar thing with Tau'fo'ou and Lattimer but they panned out. Of course, they have had trouble with the law. One thing you saw chizdick do was sell kids on ISU. He repeatedly told kids not to commit unless they were 100% sure and he even pulled offers if kids committed and then visited somewhere else. I think that helped hold the class together along with CPR just being a hell of a guy.
chizdick was in on Marry, Mars and Joel Kight at LB. Marry was pretty high on ISU until chizdick left then went to Ole Miss. There were a couple DL that were in the same situation. I think we were one of three visits for DE Dye. A four star that ended up at Miami. While people didn't think we had a chance, he visited and that meant a lot.
I am not saying he would have devloped the talent but he got some good guys here. I know a lot of people don't like McFarland but if you look at the guys he brought in on the OL...wow.Burris, KO, Hicks, Haughton, Lichtenburg, Tuftee... A lot of talent on that OL Reggie Stephens also gave McFarland a lot of credit for his development.
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Did I say he was?
But if you want to go there...what kind of development have we seen on the offensive side of the ball? Defense...yes, a ton. Offense, eh, not so much. Of course, that could change this year.
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Chiz didn't really come in "late" his first year. He was named the head coach in November of '06. I realize a lot of recruiting is done throughout the season and even a full year ahead of time, but in terms of coaching transitions, Chiz had a full recruitment period. Unlike when Chiz left in mid-December and it was Christmas before we got CPR. That's a big difference in recruiting time.
I tend to disagree. A full recruitment period is ot Nov-Feb. Any coaching change is late in the recruiting game. Recruiting relationships are built over a 1-2 year time period. Not a month or two. Anyone you grab in a month or two has some issues unless they are a JUCO that blew up in their last season. And even if they are JUCO, they are there for a reason.
It isn't like CPR didn't have late signees that flopped or had issues.
Princeton Jackson-never made it (not really Rhoads as he committed between the coaches)
Taylor Martin- never made it
Brandon Mims- never made it
Tau'fo'ou- injuries and legal issues
Lattimer- had legal issues
Aaron moore- legal issues
Donnie Jennert- we hear transfer rumors weekly but at least he is still here, I think
Walter Woods- injuries issues and has yet to coontribute but still could
Willie Scott- should contribute this year
Jansen Watson- should contribute this year
In short, more times than not, late signees during coaching changes have issues.
2007 late signees after chizdick was hired
KO-pretty damn good
Alex Alvarez-3 year starter
JJ Bass- got some snaps and starts but was in the dog house.
Trey Baysinger- gone
Allen Bell- saw some good PT
Cameron Bell- Transferred not a contributor
Jerrod Black- not a contributor
Joe Blaes- flop
James Carpenter- never made it...too bad
Doug Dedrick- solid contributor
Colin Franklin- more than a solid contributor
Wallace Franklin- another overhyped WR that did nothing
Anothony Green- nothing
Randy Kellman- nothing
Klerekoper- nothing
Joe McMahon- academics and couldn't stay
AJ Mathews- nothing
Weir- solid contributor
Tate- contributor
Amazingly, that was 19 players that were signed after the coaching change out of a class of 25. There was a lot of work to do and we got some guys that really contriuted. Nine of those 19 started at some point. Year two, chizdick only signed two JUCOs. Banks and Jason Carlson. Banks was a two year starter tht drove me nuts but he was a starter. Most of chizdicks JUCOs actually contributed. It was his late highschool signees that flopped or didn't make it to campus.
In comparison, CPR's first class had nine sign after the change. Two(Lattimer, Tau'fo'ou) have started to date. Although some guys like Jennert, Scott, and Watson should be contributors the next couple years.
IMO- the % of recruiting success in those transition years is pretty similar. chizdick just had a bigger class to fill
As you can see, chizdick had a lot more work to do to fill the class than CPR and was only hired three weeks earlier than CPR.
And how many wins did we get those two years? Sure the talent may have upgrades, but the coaching has been the biggest change....
Okay, stay on track here. We are talking recruiting. That is the topic. Who recruited who. Not who is the better coach. Not who develops the talent better, etc, etc.
If you want to go there, I think CPR is a better coach. I think DMac was a better coach. I think CPR is a better coach and recruiter. I think chizdick was a better recruiter than DMac. I think CPR and Dmac are both better people and are better fits than chizdick. I also don't think 2 years is enough time to evaluate a coach. Never have and never will. If I were to use two years then I would say Herman sucks. but it is unfair to use two years.
chizdick's biggest mistake was hiring his buddies. That and he was a ****. That is it and even he knew it which is why he demoted them. Bolt was horrible. I thought McFarland was decent but was being asked to run a system that he was learning.
If you want to talk player development by staffs then compare them. Bolt didn't develop anything. McFarland developed players on offense. Reggie Stephens even said he was instrumental in his development. I would even say some players played much better(Arnaud) under McFarland than Herman. Now with CPR, the opposite is true. Wally has developed guys and does great. Herman hasn't developed anyone.
My overall evaluation of chizdick is he is an *** that made a mistake hiring his coordinators. He was learning on the job here and fixing his mistakes. He was not a good fit at ISU due to his arrogance. He worked at places where the HC was just a CEO and that doesn't fly at ISU. I thought he did a good job adjusting his system to fit the talent on offense and I thought he had a system set on defense and wasn't going to alter that system but recruit to play that system. Kinda the opposite of CPR because our defense has adjusted but out offense has been pretty rigid. I could care less that chizdick left. As a matter of fact it was the best for both parties. I don't understand why people hate him for leaving. He went to a better program, closer to where he is from, and is making a lot more $$$. The way he treated the players when he left makes him an ***. Unllike others, I don't hink he ruined ISU football. DMAc was starting to move backwards(and I love DMac) and poor coordinators/coordinator turnover set him back. That is apparent by the lack of draft picks the last couple of years.
In the end, I think CPR is the best of both and he has more support from the administration than any coach since the 70's.
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