What is CPR's Philosophy on Field Goal Kickers?

Discussion in 'Football' started by tulsacyfan, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. tulsacyfan

    tulsacyfan Member

    Aug 31, 2007
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    I know there is already a “Grant Mahoney†thread on this issue but to me I see the issue as way bigger than Grant Mahoney. From the Dan McCarney era to present, we have never been able to field a reliable/consistent kicker. I know all these kids are giving their best effort, so I am sorry to criticize the kids - heck Grant Mahoney is possibly the best kicker we have had during this timeframe.

    As a fan, it is just unbelievably frustrating that since the early 1990’s field goal kicking has been a complete adventure for ISU. Put it this way – when the play by play announcer Saturday night called the field goal kick inside the red zone a “chip shotâ€, my wife’s comment was, “well this guy has apparently never seen us play before…….â€

    I know there are different schools of thought on this issue, but to me Iowa State is many times going to have to scrap and claw against the tough competition in the Big 12 and many times it will come down to a long field goal to stay in the game. My thinking is that ISU needs to put a high degree of priority on recruiting/developing an excellent kicker(s). I personally wish the coaching staff would put field goal kicking as a VERY high priority position.

    The other school of thought is why burn scholarships on kickers, which I think was Dan McCarney’s philosophy (which gave us Shaggy and we all know how well that worked out). If this philosophy is used, then you sure as heck don’t attempt long field goals and you instead play field position football and let your defense try to get the ball back. You also throw in a lot more fake field goals and you go for it a whole lot more on fourth down when you are inside the fifty yard line.

    I guess what frustrates me is that it seems to me that ISU has employed some hybrid of these two philosophies where we don’t put much priority on recruiting/developing good kickers yet we still roll them out there and ask them to make field goals that they haven’t shown that they are able to make consistently. I guess I would like to know what CPR’s philosophy on this is, going forward. Sorry, I am just a shell shocked fan with no degree of confidence that we will make any field goal from any spot on the field given our recent history.
     
  2. HILLCYD

    HILLCYD Well-Known Member

    Nov 22, 2006
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    1. Missing field goals didn't lose us the game Sat.
    2. I hope he is smart enough to use a scholarship on one.
     
  3. Tedcyclone

    Tedcyclone Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2009
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    3. it certainly didnt help.. make those both and its a 1 td game for pretty much the entire 2nd half... that would of made a difference.
     
  4. tulsacyfan

    tulsacyfan Member

    Aug 31, 2007
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    Agreed - I completely understand and agree that missing field goals did not lose us the game on Saturday. It sure as heck did not help either.

    Missing short field goals like we did on Saturday completely destroys momentum.
     
  5. Ames

    Ames Well-Known Member

    Sep 5, 2006
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    After his second miss I saw Paul walk him over to the net, Paul watched him kick a couple, and then Paul said something to him.
     
  6. acoustimac

    acoustimac Well-Known Member

    Jan 8, 2009
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    I beg to differ. Shaggy was one of the most accurate and consistent kickers ISU has ever had. Who is going to complain about Jamie Kohl? Outstanding kicker.
     
  7. tulsacyfan

    tulsacyfan Member

    Aug 31, 2007
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    Except when the kick actually mattered and then he was pathetic.
     
  8. acoustimac

    acoustimac Well-Known Member

    Jan 8, 2009
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    Were you at the Iowa game perchance?
     
  9. clone52

    clone52 Well-Known Member

    Jun 27, 2006
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    There just aren't that many outstanding kickers in college football. Look at the NFL. There are 30 spots for a good kicker. Seems like at least half the NFL teams are always lamenting their kickers. So in the NFL, with the entire world population from age 22 to 45 to pull from can only find 15 good kickers. You really think its that easy to find a good kicker in th 18-22 age range when you have over 100 schools looking for the same thing?
     
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  10. HILLCYD

    HILLCYD Well-Known Member

    Nov 22, 2006
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    That was the ONE game where he came through. A great game to do it in, and I give him all the credit in the world, but to call him a clutch kicker would be laughable.
     
  11. jdoggivjc

    jdoggivjc Well-Known Member

    Sep 27, 2006
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    Way to pick out the outlier... :no:
     
  12. tulsacyfan

    tulsacyfan Member

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    No, but I was perchance at the Missouri game and I was at the KU game, both of which were relatively easy field goals that cost us shots at the Big 12 title game.

    Dude, you seriously aren't going to argue that Shaggy was a good kicker with me are you? I would consider the Iowa game kick to be an anomaly. As a general rule, if the kick was a high pressure kick, he missed it. Good kickers do not miss kicks like the one he missed against Missouri -ever.
     
  13. tulsacyfan

    tulsacyfan Member

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    Clone 52, you make an excellent point. I agree it is a tough position and they are hard to find.

    I guess this is what makes me wonder why we frequently attempt 40+ yarders at Jack Trice, given that the kickers we have may not be the top of the heap, frequent windy conditions, etc.

    Just makes me wonder why we don't instead try to pin the opponent deep in these types of situations rather than miss a low probability kick and give the opponent good field position.

    And yes, I know Mahoney made a long one against Nebraska, but he also missed a long one against Nebraska.

    I know I am arm-chair quarterbacking, but my opinion on this has always been consistent - much outside 40 yards and we need to think of other options besides field goals.
     
  14. Sandman

    Sandman Member

    Oct 13, 2009
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    Kicker is possibly the easiest position to develop in all of football. Kids all over the country play soccer and learn to kick. And unless you have some kicking prodigy, there should also be a very small talent drop between the starting kicker and the backup. Once you get to a certain level of leg strength and kicking mechanics (which isn't that hard for these guys), consistency is more mental than anything. Our guys don't seem to be confident whatsoever. It's telling that they're not willing to put Guyer out there either.

    Maybe Van der Kamp should take over field goals as well.
     
  15. HILLCYD

    HILLCYD Well-Known Member

    Nov 22, 2006
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    If this were the case, there would be many more good kickers out there. Being more mental than anything is exactly why it isn't the easiest position do develop in IMO.
     
  16. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Well-Known Member

    Jan 9, 2009
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    We can argue all day about who was and was not a good kicker.

    Back to the original topic...
    CPR used a scholarship on a punter last year so I believe he will not hesitate to put future kickers on sholly as well. I would love it if we could recruit a scholarship kicker and hav the opportunity to redshirt him and give him at least a year before he is forced into duty though.

    I am also wondering if Guyer (if the staff wants him to) will want to use his redshirt year and stick around to kick after Mahoney is done. It would be nice to have an upperclassman step in and give us an extra year to recruit/develop a successor.
     
  17. tazclone

    tazclone Well-Known Member

    Apr 14, 2006
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    #17 tazclone, Nov 22, 2010
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
    Shaggy was golden inside of 40 yards. Not good outside of 40 yards. It was ridiculous that we asked him to win games for us and gave up moving the ball once we got within a 45 yard field goal forcing him into 40+ yard field goals. If you gave him a 30 yard field goal he would drill it every single time.

    As for the OP, Rhoads was recruiting the number 3 ranked kicker last year in Will Hagerup. The kid chose Michigan. That should tell you what kind of emphasis he puts on kickers. Mahoney was solid this year until we asked him to consistently kick 45+ yard field goals. Then his confidence was shaken and the snaps were crap. Kicking is mental and once Mahoney lost a little confidence and couldn't count on the snap, he started missing.
     
  18. clone52

    clone52 Well-Known Member

    Jun 27, 2006
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    If what you say is true, it makes a huge argument for never using a scholarship on a kicker, which I think is the wrong move entirely.
     
  19. Kyle

    Kyle Well-Known Member

    Mar 30, 2006
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    This. There just really are not that many good college kickers. It seemingly also is not that easy to pick a good one during recruiting. A lot of kickers don't get a scholarship until proving themselves as walk-ons. Here are a few articles for some perspective.
    OU has plenty of scholarship kickers, but lacks successful kicking game | NewsOK.com
    College kickers end up coaching themselves | Standard-Examiner – Ogden, Layton, Brigham, Weber, Davis, Sports, Entertainment, Dining, Utah Jazz, Real Salt Lake, Ogden Raptors, Top of Utah News
     
  20. KMAC_ATTACK

    KMAC_ATTACK Well-Known Member

    Feb 20, 2007
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    Although directly or indirectly - missed field goals 100% did affect the result on Sat.

    If that second kick goes through and the score is 7-6, i can say with 100% certainty that Mizzou does not try a fake punt on their own side of the field. If it failed that would have left isu in a position of taking the lead late in the fourth quarter with a field goal.

    Not to mention the huge-collective sigh that exhausted Jack Trice on both misses....

    That my friend is called losing the BIG MO!!!!

    So to refute your comments - missing those two field goals played a bigger role in the loss then the score.....
     
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