It's funny how a few years away from the program turns a guy who many on here thought was a terrible playcaller and couldn't develop QB's into a cult hero. Selective memory runs rampant on this board.
Tom Herman
- Thread starter Rabbuk
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I actually thought that he was a bad coach. QBs never got better under him. Heck, Arnaud had his best year under McFarland. Herman also had the tendency to get too cute trying to trick people. Once in awhile, it worked out. Most times, he should have been more willing to do what everyone thought he should/would and make the opponent stop it. The guy thinks he's smarter than everyone else and seemed hellbent on proving it instead of just relying on the guys he's coaching to make the play. No idea how he ended up on Urban's staff, but I can guarantee that if he gets a BCS job, he will flop big time.
So, you think that ISU could turn around enough this season that CPR gets big school or NFL offers? Even so, I don't think he's going anywhere.
I wouldn't say cult hero, but when a guy has been successful at every place he's been except one, maybe Herm wasn't the problem. (and yes, a lot of people could be successful with the talent under him and the coach over him like he's got at OSU, so I'm no denying that) On the flip side, and corroborating that...when he left and our offense still stunk...maybe Herm wasn't the problem.
I will say, though, that there is something to his scheme needing the right talent and he didn't adjust it well for what we had. I think MM can do better on that, he didn't start with blue chippers at KU.
I do think, though, that after his success at OSU and our continuing to languish in the doldrums on offense, "Herman is a crappy coach" has softened in some people to a "his style didn't fit here and there were/are other problems outside of Herman." And, perhaps, even "He didn't fit here, but he's sure done well everywhere else he's been"
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This is kind of where I am with it.
I think it's fairly clear that he was hell-bent on installing his system and was confident that he could get any guys he inherited to run it properly. He was wrong. He would have been better served trying to do more of what his guys were capable of doing rather than what he thought that they SHOULD be able to do.
I don't doubt that he's a smart guy and a good coach, but he was young and stubborn too and that worked against him at ISU. I think his talent lies in scheming and not teaching, because his guys never developed and actually seemed to regress under him. I don't think he responded well to the adversity. He probably had never had any serious situations like that where he thought, "Oh damn, this isn't working." I thought he called a good game, and people that differ just need to look at what the offense looked like under Mess to know it can be much worse. It didn't help that we had probably the worst talent in the league at WR and close to it at the other skill positions in his tenure. He also did next to nothing to increase that talent level. It's also possible that our guys just weren't capable of keeping up with him and that's why they didn't learn and improve - don't know how likely it is, but it's always a possibility.
He's someone who's smart enough to be able to walk into a high profile gig and not screw it up. I don't think he's an innovator or some guru by any means. He can scheme and call a game at a high level, so he's a great fit for a Top20 program where he won't need to develop or teach.
This is spot on, he's a Kevin Sumlin clone. Both guys hung around great coaches and essentially copied what they saw but have never built a program. Not saying they can't be program builders, they just never have. Neither have been anywhere long enough to see a recruiting class they brought in graduate but both have had success with other coaches guys.
He has always had coaching ability and talent, but here he didn't adjust to the talent that was given to him and struggled to play call with the players we had.
This is a terrible post. A+M might have had talent on their roster over the years due to location but they hardly had more success than ISU in 15 years they were in the Big 12. They won **** all.
They move to the best conference that is renowned for defense and immediately become a top level program and take top team in the state away from the Horns.
Sorry man but Briles wouldn't have done as well in the SEC as Summlin has if he went to A+M when Sumlin did.
How the **** can anyone say Sumlin hasn't built A+M??? Its like someone not crediting Malzahn for his national championship and saying the credit belongs to Chizek.
Tom Herman will be a great coach. I think Montgomery is probably the better fit for ISU and a Big 12 team but Herman will do well assuming he goes to a Big Ten or ACC school since those conferences are soft and overrated. Herman got results and won games with some really bad QBs.
I don't even think Barnett is the starter for Ill State for his senior year and Herman won some huge games with him and Jantz. The year after he left would have been really ugly if not for 2 NFL linebackers coming back as seniors and that team lost a couple games because of bad coordinator calls and awful mismanagement of the QB situation.
Actually by you're rationale Chizik did build Auburn, he won a NC with Tuberville's guys. So Sumlin and he may be a better comparison. A&M brought in top 20, sometimes 10 recruiting classes for decades. They are at the exact same spot in the SEC as they were in the big 12, a second tier team. Sumlin didn't build anything there, he showed up to a program with nearly every advantage possible, including a cupboard stocked full of 4 and 5* talent and great coordinators.
I think that's a comment more about how overhyped the SEC is than anything else. Two average Big XII teams move there and in the first two years, with Big XII players, they each have a top 10 season.
Herman is going to have to succeed as a HC at a school like Houston (or Rice) before he gets called up to the big leagues. Or he should have to at least. Any Big 5 team that hires him is taking a huge risk.
