To Foul or Not to Foul

Discussion in 'Mens Basketball' started by Cyrok, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. Cyrok

    Cyrok Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    Kenpom brings some statistics to the discussion on whether to foul or not when up 3:

    the kenpom.com blog

    The link might need a subscription, but the condensed version is that in every late-game situation since the 2009-2010 season when protecting a 3 point lead, teams that intentionally foul win 92.7% of the time while teams that choose to defend honestly win 94% of the time.

    One possible reason Pomeroy gives is that when a defense knows you must have a 3 pointer with limited time remaining, teams only make 16.1% verses the D1 average of 33.8% for all 3 pointers.

    A second issue with intentionally fouling that I haven't seen discussed is the potential for the ref to call an intentional or flagrant foul. A poster in another thread stated that Clyburn should have grabbed his man before the ball was thrown in which makes me cringe because then it's up to the official whether or not it to call it a technical.

    We're all disappointed with the close games we've lost, but I doubt anyone is as disappointed as Fred and his team are. In spite of the heartbreakers, I am happy with the product these guys are putting on the court.

    Go Cyclones!
     
  2. CysRage

    CysRage Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2009
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    In Hoiberg we trust

    [video=youtube;blxNPHEO51Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blxNPHEO51Y[/video]
     
  3. Cy$

    Cy$ Well-Known Member

    Sep 1, 2011
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    I don't have a problem with the strategy of not fouling. I do with how the team executes. Giving a decent look to Texas' best 3-point shooter in that situation shouldn't happen. On McLemore's shot, ISU's defense was late switching though overall it was a lucky *** shot.
     
  4. nallen34

    nallen34 Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2010
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    If teams shoot 16% on last second 3's how is there a 94% winning percentage for the team that doesn't foul?
     
  5. VeloClone

    VeloClone Well-Known Member

    Jan 19, 2010
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    #5 VeloClone, Feb 15, 2013
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
    Well off the top of my head the team that was ahead could still win in OT. Or that team could still score in whatever time remains in regulation.
     
  6. CyberJJJ

    CyberJJJ Member

    Dec 19, 2006
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    Additionally, they might not get a shot off at all, or the shot they get off isn't a 3.
     
  7. Bigman38

    Bigman38 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2010
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    those stats just make me sick when we're 1-3(?) in that situation this year.

    The college basketball gods owe us a couple breaks come tourney time.
     
  8. Cyrok

    Cyrok Member

    Oct 14, 2009
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    Yeah, we've been extremely unlucky.
     
  9. cmjh10

    cmjh10 Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2012
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    Can we drop this? We have done both strategies and have lost both times. Its just bad luck, thats all it is right now. Sometime down the road, the luck will turn on our favor and we wont have to have this conversation anymore.
     
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  10. CyDude16

    CyDude16 Well-Known Member

    Oct 2, 2008
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    This topic is new, I've never heard about this who foul or not foul thing.
     
  11. BringBackJohnny

    Feb 11, 2009
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    IMO - you always foul. I am basing this on my statisits though.

    If you foul the other team needs a series of events to come to fruition in order to be successful. While if you do not foul you only need one single event to happen to be successful. Just based on that I would take my chanes of making the other team complete a series of perfect events instead of one singular event.
     
  12. wonkadog

    wonkadog Well-Known Member

    Apr 17, 2006
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    We need a coach to get in here and officially end the debate by stating that you never foul in that situation. I believe they all have to promise to uphold this principle before getting their coaching license.
     
  13. heitclone

    heitclone Well-Known Member

    Jun 21, 2009
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    Fouling almost cost us in regulation at Texas, had Lucious not hit his FT's Texas would have been shooting for the game winner. Had we not fouled the worst case scenario would have been OT. Not worth the risk.
     
  14. Drive4cy

    Drive4cy Well-Known Member

    Nov 17, 2006
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    I'm fine with either strategy too but its all about preference. The fact Fred chose to foul in the Texas game speaks volumes of where he stands on the issue. I can't wait to see what he does the next time he's in that position.
     
  15. Cydkar

    Cydkar Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2006
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    Or bad defense, in the case of Texas.
     
  16. cmjh10

    cmjh10 Well-Known Member

    Dec 5, 2012
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    Well, yeah, there is this as well...
     
  17. Benny34

    Benny34 Member

    Nov 29, 2007
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  18. Hayes30

    Hayes30 Well-Known Member

    Jun 20, 2011
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    Why?
     
  19. Cyclonepride

    Cyclonepride Thought Police
    Staff Member

    Still firmly in the not foul camp, but a couple more of these freak shots and I might be persuaded.
     
  20. Die4Cy

    Die4Cy Well-Known Member

    Jan 2, 2010
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    Not always a good idea to give free throws with time on the clock. Even if he only makes two of the three, or it's only a one and one you still have to get the ball in bounds on their end of the court, something Hogue failed to do late in the overtime period.
     

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