Question about your recent KU game for the x's & o's guys on Cyclone Fanatic

Discussion in 'Football' started by Sammy11, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. Sammy11

    Sammy11 Active Member

    Jun 11, 2010
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    As there apparently was no TV down here for the game (or I missed it if there was) I am curious how things broke down in this game. I saw that you outgained them 426-301 so the score seems misleading.

    Now one simply looks at the score and is surprised to see 13-10 against the #120 defense in the country and then you obviously look for what happened to get it there. I mean none of this as smack and purely ask from curiosity.

    I feel your team is better than that scoreboard performance so the questions I have are as follows:

    1- My first thought went to the 3 turnovers, was it a situation where they simply made great plays to put helmets on the ball during well protected carries or was it flukey like fumbled snaps? What about the INT?

    2- What kind of schemes did each side use on D? Conservative or were there frequent blitzes?

    3- They had runs of 17 and 22 yards on their TD drive, was it ISU keeping 2 deep safeties giving them favorable numbers in the box (much like our game) or was it missed tackles or blitzing guys out of position?

    4- How did Barnett play in terms of passing it?


    Just a few questions to hopefully get a snapshot of this game. I like you guys and I like your team. I hope you guys pull off 1 more win here and get to a bowl. Good luck going forward.
     
  2. isufbcurt

    isufbcurt Well-Known Member

    Apr 21, 2006
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    1. 2 fumbles and 1 int. 1 of the fumbles was a bad exchange between RB & QB on the zone read. The other fumble was a WR trying to get extra yards and had it stripped from behind. The int the QB was late on throwing to the crossing receiver and the defender stepped in front.

    2. On defense we ran our base stuff, not to much blitzing. KU uses 3 dlinemen and a stand up d-end. The linemen were shooting gaps and that screwed up the zone read timing. The corners were manning up on the outside receivers (for the most part) and playing 2 deep zone with the safeties and LB's.

    3. Alot of missed tackles early on in the game.

    4. Not fair to judge JB's passing performance due to the high winds. I thought he did decent, could have done better but could have done worse.

    We won and thats all that matters to me, so I am not going to complain.
     
  3. digZ

    digZ Well-Known Member

    Sep 2, 2011
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    1 - The turnovers were all pretty bad plays from what I saw. Cases of the dropsies on the two fumbles(in the red zone no less), and the interception was a poor throw by Barnett.

    2 - Kansas was stacking the box quite often, and trying to bring pressure or jam up gaps in the trenches to stop the inside run, challenging us to throw. We on the other hand were dropping backs into coverage really often despite the fact that Kansas was getting a lot of offtackle runs on us.

    I thought our Offense vs their Defense was pretty even as far as schemes go, but our Defense vs their Offense we got outcoached pretty badly.

    3 - I'm not sure, I don't really recall anything specific from that drive other than I was ****** we gave up a TD

    4 - Barnett played alright as far as passing goes, considering the wind. He had a couple of good throws, and the one really bad one for the int. He wasn't doing very well at making reads, either on the zone read or on reading passing coverage. It seemed like he wasn't progressing through all of his reads, and was routinely missing open receivers. I'll chalk them up to rookie mistakes. Later in the game it seemed we abandoned the pass because of the wind, not surprisingly.
     
  4. jay moe

    jay moe Well-Known Member

    Apr 10, 2006
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    The 3 turnovers were huge, we were on the move all 3 times and probably would have come away with points. The fumbled exchange stopped a certain TD drive.
     
  5. cykadelic2

    cykadelic2 Well-Known Member

    Jun 10, 2006
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    #1 - Without the turnovers (2 of them unforced), ISU could have had at least 14 more points without the turnovers.

    #2 - KU jammed the middle of the field with their D. That left open bubble screen opportunities but Barnett misfired on several of them which took some points off the board for ISU.

    #3 - ISU's DEs are not good against the run and like several other teams, KU took advantage of that. ISU made some scheme/personnel adjustments at the half to help out the DEs.

    #4 - See #2.
     
  6. RayShimley

    RayShimley Well-Known Member

    Sep 9, 2008
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    Also ISU drove down to the KU 9 on their final drive and went into victory formation to run out the clock instead of scoring.
     
  7. guitarchitect7

    guitarchitect7 Well-Known Member

    Oct 8, 2006
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    My breakdown is this:

    KU: Had success running the ball. Actually surprised they didn't try running it more. Missed tackles on ISU allowed some of these yards. Some blitzes left defenders away from the ball the make a play. They threw for a few successful pass plays that were setup by the run. When they decided to start passing just because, that's when ISU was able to hold them on downs and force a punt. I more surprised that KU didn't score more than they did, this was a game they should have won.

    ISU: This team couldn't find a rhythm until the fourth quarter, and even that drive only resulted in 3 points (but the game winning 3 points). We had no momentum at all. They stopped our runs every time. Our big runs came from Barnett on 3rd and long and scrambling to get the first downs. It wasn't until that 4th quarter sustained drive that White, Woody, Hollis had a chance to pick up more than a couple yards. This resulted in us having to pass more, unfortunately we still kept trying to run leaving longer conversions for 2nd and 3rd downs. The problem on passing in came in predictable times and I saw KU putting 3 safties back at times to stop them. LBs were already dropped in converge before the pay began, and sometimes they only rushed 3 on the line.

    I'm quite surprised we pulled this game off. Nothing worked for ISU and at least the running game was working for KU. Lets not forget KU left 6 points on the field, we would have been playing from behind. Defensively I felt that really gave everything they could. You don't hold someone to 10 points and not have some part in it. Offensively, 13 points is about right, that's all the points we had opportunities at so that's all we got.

    Against any other team, this would have been a 35-13 type game.
     
  8. jaretac

    jaretac Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2006
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    May I add one?

    KU played inspired. They saw this as their last chance to get a win in the big 12 and who knows, last chance to get a win for their coach. We didn't tackle well, but they refused to go down. The TOs were big, but what really hurt was the wind taking away the passing game for us.
     
  9. Sammy11

    Sammy11 Active Member

    Jun 11, 2010
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    So taking in the responses so far we have:

    1- So the turnovers were-
    a- Fumbled QB read exchange : ISU fault
    b- Bad throw for pick : ISU fault
    c- WR fumble, probably a little of both teams

    2- ISU played their typical "make them execute" D to avoid big plays and KU sold out to stop the run and make the young QB beat them.

    3- ISU's smaller LB-type DEs and the 2 deep safety scheme gave them room to run and Rhoads later adjusted. Add missed tackles to the mix and it gets worse.

    4- Young QB struggled when forced to make plays as the run was taken away. When you did pass it was predictable down & distance?

    Is that pretty accurate?
     
  10. cy1010

    cy1010 Well-Known Member

    Dec 16, 2009
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    I thought Barnett actually played pretty well. He DID have 300 yards total offense. The pick was just a freshman mistake on the read.

    The WR fumble was real bad. It was Darius Darks. Dude finally catches a ball and then can't hang on to it for more than 10 steps.

    I think our offense was taking what KU gave us while still trying to not abandon what we want to do (i.e. trying to not let KU dictate the terms).
     
  11. TitanClone

    TitanClone Well-Known Member

    Dec 21, 2008
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    On KU's TD drive we had them stopped, then after the third down play we had a 15 yard unsportsmanlike. That was followed a couple plays later by another 15 yard unsportsmanlike. We handed them the TD.
     
  12. Wesley

    Wesley Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2006
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    Couple of momentum swings helped KU: their first TD, the low scoring, and the halftime score. Ganging up the middle with no deep down field throws made for a low scoring game. Frankly, the playcalling was minimal again. We had opportunities to excel but we allowed it to be a slugfest.

    The punter left sweep was a play to remember.

    Woody running straight at them may have worked early in the game. Wait, there was that one fumbled exchange.

    Our ex recruit and the standing up end helped keep KU in the game. Leonard had another jawboining expletive for a penalty with his buddy, the ex recruit.

    Our fg kicker knows how to kick line drives in the wind.

    Decent refs. Poor play reviews. What is going on in the review booth this year?

    Albert Gary to the rescue to replace Money who had an injury that was explained as team rules by the broadcast team.

    Wonder if we can throw a bubble screen in the wind?

    Matt and other linebackers did a pretty decent job when it counted.

    Receivers played better.

    KO crushed his man at the end of the game.
     
  13. Cyclophile1

    Cyclophile1 Well-Known Member

    Dec 14, 2009
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    KU was gassed and had given up there it appeared. Nice sportsmanship move by Rhoads to sit on the ball inside their their 10 yard line. Between that and the three turnovers in KU's end of the field (2 of them red zone), it's safe to say we left a lot of points off the board.

    I'll give credit to Kansas for coming out ready to play and generally playing with their backs to the wall. About 70 of the rush yards they gave up came in the last 3 minutes, and prior to that I would say that they were pretty disruptive to our patchwork OL and really stuffed us a lot. I was expecting to see MUCH worse effort and talent given that this was arguably the worst defense in Big12 history.

    We're down four starters on offense, so I didn't expect us to go for 40+, but I definitely expected more than 13. We seemed pretty limited by personnel and the windy conditions to what we could successfully run in the passing game. Our only real deep threat was sitting out to a violation of team rules. We seemed really vanilla in our play calls and really didn't do much. The best run plays were our QB either on designed QB draws/delays or on scrambles.
     
  14. Sammy11

    Sammy11 Active Member

    Jun 11, 2010
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    Well thanks guys. Good luck and hopefully Rhoads can pull an upset to get you to a bowl this year. He has a real chance to make you guys a consistent winner with some improved recruiting.
     
  15. WeedCyntist

    WeedCyntist Member

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    Agree totally. The two unsportsmanlike penalties after having them stopped deflated us.
     
  16. khaal53

    khaal53 Well-Known Member

    Apr 13, 2006
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    Outside of the turnovers for ISU, it was also a low scoring game becaue it was a low possession game. A stiff wind led to a lot of running plays and easy completions. ISU had 10 offensive possessions and KU had 9 for the game. Both teams have been in the neighborhood of 12-13 possessions per game for the season.
     
  17. Cyclophile1

    Cyclophile1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this was a perfect example of the mental errors that have really been the downfall of an otherwise pretty darn salty secondary. I think a stop there and no missed exchange on the other end of the field could have changed the trajectory of the game early on. Could easily have been up by 17 pretty quickly forcing KU to pass more to come back and instead it's a slugfest.
     
  18. mt85

    mt85 Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2006
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    #18 mt85, Nov 7, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2011
    sammy

    KU's defense was designed to take away the RB on the zone read plays. They did an excellent job of bringing extra defenders into run support from the safety and corner positions. We were without one of our starting guards on offense, and that may have been a contributing factor to our ineffectiveness on the zone read plays.

    KU did a poor job of assigning a defender to spy on our QB and left the middle of the field wide open on passing plays. Our QB abused this weakness to scramble for first downs on a number of occasions.

    There were several plays where we had receivers running open, but our young QB didn't always find the open receiver. The interception is a good example. On the interception they brought a safety up on run support. When the safety read pass he started dropping into coverage and the QB didn't read that and threw into double coverage. On that play, which was 2nd and 3 at KUs 35, he could have hit a wide open RB that slipped through the line and was uncovered underneath for an easy first down.

    Late in the game when we had the opportunity to kill the clock with a couple of first downs. We went to a pistol formation and ran the same play five straight times and KU could not stop it. I not sure if we ran out of the pistol until that drive.

    The three turnovers definitely made it difficult to get any momentum with our offense. Two were deep in KU territory, and one was near mid field.

    KUs offense was good in the first half, but they struggled to move the ball in the second half. We struggled with tackling and getting off blocks in the first half. Their offensive line was controlling our defensive line in the first half. They have a couple of solid RB and their offensive line and WR did a nice job of holding blocks in the first half.

    I think KU players came into this game with a lot of energy and focus. I'm guessing the rumors of their coaches being on the hot seat plus the embarrassment at Texas gave them some extra motivation. We didn't seem to be matching that intensity in the first half. In the second half, their offense struggled to sustain a drive. We kept them in the game with our turnovers.

    I think Griffin will be able to exploit KU's defense with his running and passing ability. KU might put up a fight for a while, but they have weaknesses in their defense that your experienced QB will be able to exploit.
     
  19. cyfan15

    cyfan15 Active Member

    Oct 23, 2006
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    Also very smart. Had we tried to go for the touchdown and had the ball pop out and be returned for a touchdown, we would have lost. That actually happened to Baylor against UNLV in 1999. With eight seconds left Baylor was on the 8 yard line and led 24-21. Instead of letting the clock run out, they tried to score another touchdown for a ten point win. The ball was stripped and UNLV returned it the length of the field for a touchdown, giving the Rebels the win.

    There have also been situations where teams scored instead of letting the clock run out and the other team scored quickly and then got an onside kick and scored again to win. The moral of the story is that if you have a chance to run the clock out for the win, you should NEVER try to score.
     
  20. RayShimley

    RayShimley Well-Known Member

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    Especially considering we had already fumbled it inside the 20 earlier in the game!
     

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