Lawn Fertilizer

[nocsiou]

Eventually you should get to the point where you need very little weed control herbicides. I haven't put down granular herbicide in 3 years because it simply wasn't necessary. I just spot spray the few weeds that try and make a home.

I haven't done a soil sample but should really get it done. I do have the best lawn on the block so I must be doing some things right. The one thing I've learned this year is frequent mowing really helps the grass to dominate the very few weeds that show up.

 

[Cyclones_R_GR8]

I look forward to this topic every year but, as usual, I end up more confused than I started. My yard is very spotty due to heavy shade and my old dog pissin every where (which has not occurred for over a year now and some grass is growing back).

I went to Lowe's bought low-price grass seed. Followed the instructions and applied fertilizer (Scott's brand) with a spreader followed immediately by grass seed (set to overseeding number on the spreader).

Did this last week in accordance to ground temps and time of year.

Is this a sound method?

No kidding. I'm about to pour Roundup all over my yard, get a couple of truckloads of sand and a couple of big rocks and turn the whole yard into a Feng Shui Sand Garden.

 

[dmclone]

I'm at the point of just saying **** it. My neighbor does nothing to his lawn, mows shorter than he should, etc and his always looks great. Mine on the other hand looks just ok regardless of what I do. His sod is about 6 years old and mine is about 5. I think it's just luck on getting good sod. Mine ends up looking better than his towards the end of summer but right now it's not even close. You can see right where his sod ends and mine starts,

 

[bobh33]

With compost being a mystery, has anyone had luck or suggest just applying the peat/humus only???

Or do you have any better suggestion to build up the soil that this???

 

[Clonefan94]

IMO, you just wasted the crabgrass preventer by putting it down 2 weeks ago. Yesterdays soil times in Iowa was 43-48 depending on what area of the state you are. Grasses start to wake up at 50-54 degrees and crabgrass can too, but usually crabgrass doesn't really start to germinate until soil temps are well into the 70's which is sometime the middle of June to July most likely. Since the crabgrass preventer has a 6 week residual, the chemical with be used up by the time crabgrass starts to pop up.

Unless of course Iowa is a similar growing climate to here in the Chicago Burbs. I read this thread earlier this season. Listened to what the so called experts said and was waiting on my crab grass preventer. Either my crab grass has a mind of it's own, is super crab grass, or your figures are off. My crab grass is in full growth right now, In fact, I've had to mow already because of the crab grass. And there is no way our soil temps are in the 70s yet, closer to 50. So, personally, from what I've seen, I think you are better putting it on a little early rather than waiting.

 

[CykoAGR]

Eventually you should get to the point where you need very little weed control herbicides. I haven't put down granular herbicide in 3 years because it simply wasn't necessary. I just spot spray the few weeds that try and make a home.

I haven't done a soil sample but should really get it done. I do have the best lawn on the block so I must be doing some things right. The one thing I've learned this year is frequent mowing really helps the grass to dominate the very few weeds that show up.

The bolded above really depends on your situation. As I stated in a previous post, I have neighbors on two sides that do little to nothing to control weeds, and an empty lot behind me that gets nothing to control weeds and gets mowed about twice a year. I have dandilions, clover and some grassy weeds creeping into my lawn from each edge. I've done about all that I can making sure that when I spray along my neighbors that I hit as much clover/dandilions as possible but when their yards are covered with them you know the seeds blow into your yard. Add to that the fact that our developement was built on a swamp and after any significant rain event my back yard sounds like a sponge for about 3 days I have spots where the grass is thin and weeds always tend to pop up.

 

[azepp]

Unless of course Iowa is a similar growing climate to here in the Chicago Burbs. I read this thread earlier this season. Listened to what the so called experts said and was waiting on my crab grass preventer. Either my crab grass has a mind of it's own, is super crab grass, or your figures are off. My crab grass is in full growth right now, In fact, I've had to mow already because of the crab grass. And there is no way our soil temps are in the 70s yet, closer to 50. So, personally, from what I've seen, I think you are better putting it on a little early rather than waiting.

Are you sure you're not looking at some tall fescue or something? Because that sounds very strange.

 

[Clonefan94]

Are you sure you're not looking at some tall fescue or something? Because that sounds very strange.

Definitely crab grass.

We did have one really warm day a couple of weeks ago. I don't know if that sparked the growth or what. I've been manually pulling them out of the ground now. and going to replace with sod this weekend.

 

[ISUFan22]

I've been manually pulling them out of the ground now.

I'd stop doing that immediately. You're just going to promote the weed to spread.

 

[nocsiou]

The bolded above really depends on your situation. As I stated in a previous post, I have neighbors on two sides that do little to nothing to control weeds, and an empty lot behind me that gets nothing to control weeds and gets mowed about twice a year. I have dandilions, clover and some grassy weeds creeping into my lawn from each edge. I've done about all that I can making sure that when I spray along my neighbors that I hit as much clover/dandilions as possible but when their yards are covered with them you know the seeds blow into your yard. Add to that the fact that our developement was built on a swamp and after any significant rain event my back yard sounds like a sponge for about 3 days I have spots where the grass is thin and weeds always tend to pop up.

Yeah, if you don't have good conditions in general you will always fight the battle. I've got pretty good conditions other than summer heat and clay. Not like you deal with it in Iowa, but I'm pretty sure the liquid treatments for breaking down clay is total ********. Aerating is pretty overrated with fescue too.

 

[tazclone]

I look forward to this topic every year but, as usual, I end up more confused than I started. My yard is very spotty due to heavy shade and my old dog pissin every where (which has not occurred for over a year now and some grass is growing back).

I went to Lowe's bought low-price grass seed. Followed the instructions and applied fertilizer (Scott's brand) with a spreader followed immediately by grass seed (set to overseeding number on the spreader).

Did this last week in accordance to ground temps and time of year.

Is this a sound method?

This is exactly what I was thinking. It seems that lots on here are experts yet none of them have the same opinion. I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm sure that each person giving advice has had success with the method that they use. It is hard to know who to beleive and what will provide the best results at the lowest cost.

As for me I have had pretty good luck with Scott's over the years but holy crap is it expensive and since I live in Waukee I will probably end up going to the local coop to see if I can get some combination of fertilizer that does contain P-K because it doesnt sound like I am getting enough K.

For anyone using Scotts products here are the combinations in each of their products

Turf Builder w/Halts (crabgrass/pre-emegre) 30-0-4
Turf Builder (Anytime application) 32-0-4
Turf Builder with weed control (Broadleaf control) 28-1-4
Turf Builder w/ Summer guard (insect/grub control 20-0-8
Turf Builder w/ Winter guard 32-0-10

For what its worth my father-in-law runs a lawn care business and he said that up until a few years ago they used all Scotts products and had good success. One thing that I would add is to plan on applying some additional broadleaf control other than what is in a dry fertlizer mix because I usually do not get adequate control with mine. I typically apply the weed control/fert combo then spot spray with some 2-4D that I get from my dad. That being said I have neighbors and open lots that recieve very little weed control so I tend to get some weeds creeping in on each side that the weed control/fert combo does not control.

GET A SOIL TEST!!!!!
There is a lot of different advice because lawns can vary greatly!






Things that affect fertility

1. Soil composition- Sand, loem, clay, sandy loem, etc, etc,etc. This could vary from yard to yard. especially in new developments where soil is moved during construction. Soil composition will greatly affect what you need to do as far as fertilization and how you fertilize. This is a big reason why someones neighbors yard looks better or worse. people on here are crying about the devloper screwing them by putting down compacted clay...well with proper fertility and water management, you can grow grass on concrete. It isn't easy but it can be done.
2. Soil fertility- Every single yard is different. Every yard. It depends what previous owners/landscapers/developers had put down as far as fertilizer. What nutrients are you low in, high in, etc. the only way to know isto get a soil test.
3. Maintenance- Do you mow low, high, once a week twice a week, every two weeks?
4. Location and sun exposure- Morning sun is best for growth. Do you have trees. do you get hot afternoon sun or cool morning sun.
5. Use- Do you have a dog and three kids or are you a retired couple that just looks at your lawn
6. Moisture- do you irrgate, don't irrigate. Again do you get morning sun or afternoon sun as afternoon sun will dry you out faster. Exposure to winds? etc, etc.

I have a Horticulture degree with an emphasis in truf management from ISU(one of the best programs), have been in the turf industry for 20+ years, and have a minor in agronomy. I have worked at some of the finest golf courses in the country and have built golf courses from scratch. My life for the last 20 years has been growing grass(the legal stuff) everyday. With all that experience, I do not apply any fertilizer without a soil test. Anyone that tells you exactly what to put down without having a soil test is doing you a disservice, including myself.
Anything I have recommended in this thread has not had a lot of phosphorus because the turf plant is very efficient in pulling it from the soil and you really can't screw up a soil/turf with Nitrogen and Potassium. They both move through the soil and through the plant rapidly. Even so, I am making very broad generalizations that will not work for every yard.

 

[tazclone]

Unless of course Iowa is a similar growing climate to here in the Chicago Burbs. I read this thread earlier this season. Listened to what the so called experts said and was waiting on my crab grass preventer. Either my crab grass has a mind of it's own, is super crab grass, or your figures are off. My crab grass is in full growth right now, In fact, I've had to mow already because of the crab grass. And there is no way our soil temps are in the 70s yet, closer to 50. So, personally, from what I've seen, I think you are better putting it on a little early rather than waiting.

This is why I recommend plant indicators. The flowering of the Forsythia bush is a great indicator.

Forsythia - Google Search
When you see these flowering shrubs apply your pre emerg

 

[tazclone]

This is exactly what I was thinking. It seems that lots on here are experts yet none of them have the same opinion. I'm not trying to bash anyone, I'm sure that each person giving advice has had success with the method that they use. It is hard to know who to beleive and what will provide the best results at the lowest cost.

.

Not a lot of experts on here. Most of the advice you have seen on here has come from what people do in their own yard or what some landscaper has told them. Very little is based off science and actual sound practices.

Keep in mind that landscapers very rarely base fertility off of soil tests. They mix a tank and then spray everyone's yard the same because it is convenient and the most economical way. That is not bashing lawn care companies. It is what it is. It is also why some people have success with them and some don't.

 

[tazclone]

I look forward to this topic every year but, as usual, I end up more confused than I started. My yard is very spotty due to heavy shade and my old dog pissin every where (which has not occurred for over a year now and some grass is growing back).

I went to Lowe's bought low-price grass seed. Followed the instructions and applied fertilizer (Scott's brand) with a spreader followed immediately by grass seed (set to overseeding number on the spreader).

Did this last week in accordance to ground temps and time of year.

Is this a sound method?

1. If you have a lot of shade then you should be using a blend heavy in fescue as it does better in low sun areas.
2. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR SEED- Cheap seed can contain annual ryegrass which a crappy grassy that will germinate quickly but dies at the end of the year and never returns. For most yards get a fescue/bluegrass/perennial ryegrass blend. Again, if you have a shade issue, then go with a shade mix that has more fescue.
3. You want a great yard- Cut down the trees and get rid of the dog. Otherwise, you will have spotty turf.

 

[Cyclonesrule91]

1. If you have a lot of shade then you should be using a blend heavy in fescue as it does better in low sun areas.
2. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR SEED- Cheap seed can contain annual ryegrass which a crappy grassy that will germinate quickly but dies at the end of the year and never returns. For most yards get a fescue/bluegrass/perennial ryegrass blend. Again, if you have a shade issue, then go with a shade mix that has more fescue.
3. You want a great yard- Cut down the trees and get rid of the dog. Otherwise, you will have spotty turf.

I have to agree that the type of grass you use makes a heck of a difference. My neighbors house was built the same time as mine, both of us had sod layed on clay. His yard looks better then my yard all the time........... the reason? Each of us had sod layed from different sod farms. My yard is a fescue / ryegrass mix and his has a good share of bluegrass. His yard is always greener and looks in better shape, especially at the end of the summer. I also have 3 kids and probably 15 other kids that spend a lot of time running through a yard and the wife's stupid dog..(that's a whole different thread)...so I can't expect a glamor yard. I do see improvements year by year as new soil structure is built.

And about the confusion that people are talking about from different advice given on this and many other threads on the same subject? The advice I have given is based on my 20+ yr history in Crop agronomy, not turf, and dealing with the type of people wanting a decent looking yard but not wanting to go to the expense and time to get soil samples and apply according to their results. My experience is also based on Iowa from I80 to the MN border....that is it. I have had good feedback about my recommendations BUT I deal with farmers for the most part that don't care a lot about their yards but put a lot more focus in crops.....So take my advice for who I have experience with........Crops

tazclone is obviously the expert here with his degree and his 20 yr experience in working with turf grasses at golf courses so I would say when him and I don't agree, I would say tazclone might be the way you follow because he's been there done that for a long time. Soil tests are obviously the best option out there. My experience has not come across one person who when I mentioned soil testing their yard took it very seriously at all. tazclone is in charge of keeping grass in shape at golf courses..........don't take a brain scientist to realize who the expert is.....

Sorry for the confusion caused by the different advice given. I would say that if you just want a yard that is healthy and better managed then a lot of the yards out there that are spread with nitrogen fertilizers only, then I am confident that what I have put out there is sufficient. If you want a yard that looks like great or you need help building up and now poor looking lawn, then tazclone is your man......

 

[tazclone]

I have to agree that the type of grass you use makes a heck of a difference. My neighbors house was built the same time as mine, both of us had sod layed on clay. His yard looks better then my yard all the time........... the reason? Each of us had sod layed from different sod farms. My yard is a fescue / ryegrass mix and his has a good share of bluegrass. His yard is always greener and looks in better shape, especially at the end of the summer. I also have 3 kids and probably 15 other kids that spend a lot of time running through a yard and the wife's stupid dog..(that's a whole different thread)...so I can't expect a glamor yard. I do see improvements year by year as new soil structure is built.

And about the confusion that people are talking about from different advice given on this and many other threads on the same subject? The advice I have given is based on my 20+ yr history in Crop agronomy, not turf, and dealing with the type of people wanting a decent looking yard but not wanting to go to the expense and time to get soil samples and apply according to their results. My experience is also based on Iowa from I80 to the MN border....that is it. I have had good feedback about my recommendations BUT I deal with farmers for the most part that don't care a lot about their yards but put a lot more focus in crops.....So take my advice for who I have experience with........Crops

tazclone is obviously the expert here with his degree and his 20 yr experience in working with turf grasses at golf courses so I would say when him and I don't agree, I would say tazclone might be the way you follow because he's been there done that for a long time. Soil tests are obviously the best option out there. My experience has not come across one person who when I mentioned soil testing their yard took it very seriously at all. tazclone is in charge of keeping grass in shape at golf courses..........don't take a brain scientist to realize who the expert is.....

Sorry for the confusion caused by the different advice given. I would say that if you just want a yard that is healthy and better managed then a lot of the yards out there that are spread with nitrogen fertilizers only, then I am confident that what I have put out there is sufficient. If you want a yard that looks like great or you need help building up and now poor looking lawn, then tazclone is your man......

Keep in mind, I can take 20 different golf course superintendents and put them in one room and they will have 20 different opinions. SO ia m by no means saying what I say is the only way. It is just one way. I tend have a balanced soil fertility philosophy, particularly with base fertility and so did the company I worked with. We did a ton of work with Brookside Laboratories. Even when we all had the same philosophy, there were different opinions by every Suprintendent, Regional agronomists, VP of Agronmoy, and our Brookside consultant.

I do want to stress that people should not be afraid of soil testing. It will take 15 minutes and cost $8 plus shipping. Once you get the soil test back it is as simple as reading a book for the average home owner.

 

[Cyclophile1]

Oh, and the post comparing cost of Scott's program with the rebate cards. I went to a area Coop and basically I got 40 lbs of 18-46-0 and 60 lbs of 0-0-60 and mixed them together. Ending analysis turns out to be 7.2-18.4-36. 2 five gallon pails full of fertilizer and I paid $10. That is enough for me to do Spring application, Fall application and some left over for the wife's garden. I will plan on buying a "concentrated" lawn chemical to spot treat areas where weeds try to take off but the plan is to get the lawn healthy enough that it takes care of the weeds itself.

What you guys think of a 60/20/20 mix of Nitrate/DAP/Potash for an established lawn?

I'm tired of paying for Scott's and the Co-op guy thought 100 lbs of that mix would be $20 or under.

That should be 23-9-12 which I thought may work well for my lawn that has large patches of no shade.

Cheers

 

[josh777]

1. If you have a lot of shade then you should be using a blend heavy in fescue as it does better in low sun areas.
2. ALWAYS CHECK YOUR SEED- Cheap seed can contain annual ryegrass which a crappy grassy that will germinate quickly but dies at the end of the year and never returns. For most yards get a fescue/bluegrass/perennial ryegrass blend. Again, if you have a shade issue, then go with a shade mix that has more fescue.
3. You want a great yard- Cut down the trees and get rid of the dog. Otherwise, you will have spotty turf.

Dog is gone. I have 3 kids to replace him though. Good advice on the seed and appreciated.

 

[tazclone]

What you guys think of a 60/20/20 mix of Nitrate/DAP/Potash for an established lawn?

I'm tired of paying for Scott's and the Co-op guy thought 100 lbs of that mix would be $20 or under.

That should be 23-9-12 which I thought may work well for my lawn that has large patches of no shade.

Cheers

With no soil test, I would say less P and more K. At the very least, I would put down more K. I like that last number to be as big as the first.

Keep in mind that cities and states are starting to ban phosphorus fertilizers. While I don't agree with aan outright ban, they can do this because there is USUALLY enough phosphorus in the soil for a mature turf and the phosphorus is genereally returned to the soil when you mow or roots die off

 

[TedKumsher]

Old family secret --- get a St. Bernard and a rake.

goats instead. no rake or lawn mower needed then.