Is it really the OC?

Discussion in 'Football' started by BenEClone, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. BenEClone

    BenEClone Active Member

    Mar 21, 2006
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    Four the last four years, ISU recruit class has been 9th or 10th in the conference. Why is our W/L record laid at the feet of a coordinator or assistant? It seems we've met or exceeded expectations.
     
  2. cycloneG

    cycloneG Well-Known Member

    Mar 7, 2007
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    The OC has recruiting responsibilities as well.
     
  3. Luth4Cy

    Luth4Cy Well-Known Member

    Sep 19, 2012
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    Good coaching staffs can work past poor recruiting classes (see Kansas State under Bill Snyder). Recruiting will never be great in Ames, which means we need an OC who can work past the lack of talent. Similar to what Wally has done with the defense.
     
  4. cybsball20

    cybsball20 Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2006
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    I am guessing our recruiting ranking was a tad better than UNI, right?
     
  5. CYCLNST8

    CYCLNST8 Well-Known Member

    Jul 19, 2008
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    Part of the problem is a rating is often determined by who you commit to. Early ISU commits (typically) aren't going to get much respect. Don't put a lot of stock in stars. Offers tell a more accurate story.

    That being said, who cares? It's all about development. Strategy & execution can overcome pure talent. This is why Mack Brown is on the hot seat. If the Longhorns put forth the effort that Rhoads gets out of his players, and the great execution that Snyder gets out of his players, they'd WOULD be in the hunt for championships every year.
     
  6. Senolcyc

    Senolcyc Well-Known Member

    Apr 20, 2010
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    The head coach isn't going to fire himself. Somebody has to take the fall.
     
  7. NickTheGreat

    NickTheGreat Well-Known Member

    Jan 17, 2012
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    I'd argue it's the downward trajectory
     
  8. klamath632

    klamath632 Well-Known Member

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    Those in the know actually blame the equipment managers. Players work themselves to death in anticipation of white helmets, and have nothing left in the tank when gameday comes around.
     
  9. cyhiphopp

    cyhiphopp Well-Known Member

    Jan 9, 2009
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    Just take a look at Wally Burnham. His defenses have, for the most part, performed well above their talent level.

    That's what having a good coordinator can do for you.
     
  10. JUKEBOX

    JUKEBOX Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2008
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    It's more important for a coach to be good at recruiting than good at actually coaching.

    If we are 9th/10th in recruiting classes, and on top of that, we are coached worse than squads with more talent, something needs to change.
     
  11. bellzisu

    bellzisu Well-Known Member

    Apr 15, 2006
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    What????

    We will always be in the bottom half of the conference in recruiting... Heck even K-State was for the most part.

    It's about getting players that can be coached up and have room and to develop.

    It's that way here.. Kstate, Iowa, Minnesota and even Nebraska lately. Our best recruiting classes have always been low compared to the rest of the conference.
     
  12. JUKEBOX

    JUKEBOX Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2008
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    I'm not saying we are ever going to get all five stars. We just need to get solid talent, be able to develop talent, and have coaches who we believe are far more competent than the opposing squad.

    I feel like this in basketball for example. I think Hoiberg is one of the smartest coaches in our league. Our talent level has increased since the McDermott years. Even though we aren't pulling in elite talent like a KU or North Carolina yet, I still think we can beat them every single time we play.
     
  13. Frak

    Frak Well-Known Member

    Apr 27, 2009
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    I actually think that the offense was on the right track coming into this year, but two things derailed it:

    1. OL injuries
    2. Messingham running SR too much and getting him hurt

    You build your offense around the running ability of a 6-1 200 lb QB and you're asking for trouble.
     
  14. bellzisu

    bellzisu Well-Known Member

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    Ummm.. Fred did have a top 25 class... And two 4 star top 100 kids..

    Bad... Bad... comparison..

    Plus, it's easier in basketball.. You only need 1 great recruit, or a couple good ones to make a good team.

    Football needs 20 some a year??
     
  15. ribsnwhiskey

    ribsnwhiskey Well-Known Member

    Feb 6, 2009
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    So, you haven't seen any games the 2 seasons Messingham was OC?
     
  16. JUKEBOX

    JUKEBOX Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2008
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    Yes, I get it. You're repeating the same basketball vs. football argument that's been laid out on this board a million times.

    The point was Fred increased talent, and Fred is smarter than other coaches we play against.
    I can't say the same for football.
     
  17. im4cyclones

    im4cyclones Well-Known Member

    Jun 14, 2010
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    Go farther back than four years and look at our offensive production. Never has been great but it has been competitive. Our recruiting has always been this way.
     
  18. cyclonez7

    cyclonez7 Well-Known Member

    Apr 11, 2006
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    OC is a problem but another problem is players who commit and don't even end up on the team. Look at the recruiting classes for the past 4 years and see how many commits never made the team or played a single snap at ISU.
     
  19. bellzisu

    bellzisu Well-Known Member

    Apr 15, 2006
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    Yes Fred is smart.. I'll give you that. And he is great at everything he has done.

    But spacing a floor and playing 5 on 5 on a small court is so much easier to prepare for and coach then football. I don't get how anyone can compare the in and out of basketball, recruiting or not, with football. Two different sports.

    That's why I laugh and cringe when people think Sage or someone with no experience of coaching should jump right in and be our OC. Yes he could probably put a game plan together, but with that comes recruiting and so many other things.
     
  20. jbhtexas

    jbhtexas Well-Known Member

    Oct 20, 2006
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    This discussion always seems to break down into an "either/or" scenario. The need for better offensive coaching and the need for better recruits are not mutually exclusive.
     

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