Has Bill Self underachieved in the post season at Kansas?

Discussion in 'Big XII Conference' started by JP4CY, Mar 4, 2017.

  1. JP4CY

    JP4CY Well-Known Member

    Dec 19, 2008
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    Yes, I know it sounds crazy, especially with the regular season championship streak.

    Joe Lunardi just said Kansas will be a #1 for the 7th time in the last 11 years.
    Post season average final result is a Sweet 16.
    I know he's a great coach but if they get bounced in the round of 32, does the fan base get a little antsy?
     
  2. BBHMagic

    BBHMagic Well-Known Member

    Oct 15, 2009
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    They suffer from the same thing WVU does. They see different officials that actually call fouls.
     
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  3. randomfan44

    randomfan44 Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2015
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    Antsy as in "want a different coach?" Eh, no.

    Antsy as in "I wish we'd win some more tourney games"? Sure, but what fan base doesn't want to win more tourney games?
     
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  4. trajanJ

    trajanJ Well-Known Member

    Sep 11, 2008
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    The last 10 years KU is 27-9 in the NCAA tournament. No first round losses, 5 Elite 8's, 2 Championship games and a NC. I think I would take that every ten years, but every year is different and if they would lose 2nd round this year like they did 2 years ago, that would suck.
     
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  5. AllInForISU

    AllInForISU Active Member

    Nov 24, 2012
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    I don't know if they necessarily get "antsy" they probably have a handful of "Fire Self" people just like we had a few "Fire Prohm" people when we hit a rough patch. The only way he gets fired would be if he put together back to back losing seasons like Ted Owens did in the early 80s.

    It honestly blows my mind that Kansas has only had 8 coaches and have had basketball since 1898 and only 1 has been fired.
     
  6. jdoggivjc

    jdoggivjc Well-Known Member

    Sep 27, 2006
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    2006-07 - 2015-16:
    10 tournament appearances; 6 1-seeds, 3 2-seeds
    Times made it to the Sweet 16: 7
    Times made it to the Final 4: 2
    Times won: 1

    For the number of times they've had one of the top 8 seeds (9 years), that tournament resume is actually kind of embarrassing.
     
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  7. CyCrazy

    CyCrazy Well-Known Member

    Dec 17, 2008
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    I would take his resume in a heartbeat. Is this a real question?
     
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  8. CycloneErik

    CycloneErik Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2008
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    Sounds a lot like Dean Smith's old resume (off the top of my head).
    Could pretty much guarantee the Sweet Sixteen every year, and often more.
    I'd take what Kansas has going.

    That said, if they get a wild hair to fire Self, I'm OK with that.
     
  9. AllInForISU

    AllInForISU Active Member

    Nov 24, 2012
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    I think Dean Smith made it to 11 FF or something like that. I don't think you can put these 2 guys in the same caliber of coach TBH. Dean Smith was one of the best coaches of all time. Bill Self is a great coach, a fantastic coach but isn't quite at that caliber IMO.

    But in his era, Self is one of the best.
     
  10. CycloneErik

    CycloneErik Well-Known Member

    Jan 31, 2008
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    It's just an example of sustained success, not a cut-and-tried comparison.
    If you want to put their records side-by-side, though, Self isn't looking too bad there.
     
  11. SpokaneCY

    SpokaneCY Well-Known Member

    Apr 11, 2006
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    I would trade programs in a heartbeat. Most dominate basketball program in history now. I think conference titles are more impressive than a hot streak in the NCAAs.. Too much can happen in 1 and done but his streak of regular conference titles makes him a hall of famer.
     
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  12. GoldCard

    GoldCard New Member

    Nov 25, 2016
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    Underachieving? In reality, I would say absolutely not. Compared to the ESPN narrative of dominance, probably, but that narrative is so skewed it is not a fair comparision. If "we" could stop trying to force the narrative, college sports would be so much more enjoyable...
     
  13. CarlHungus

    CarlHungus Well-Known Member

    Feb 19, 2012
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    As we all know, March is such a crapshoot. Two final 4's and one championship is impressive
     
  14. cyclones500

    cyclones500 Well-Known Member

    Jan 29, 2010
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    Several people have posted, "I'd take KU's success rate in a microsecond" (most of us would), but that wasn't really the crux of OP's question. It wasn't comparing KU to ISU, it's, has Self's tournament performance fallen disproportionally short of seeding stature/expectation? The short answer is, uh, yeah.
     
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  15. Tornado man

    Tornado man Well-Known Member

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    Last year, Kansas played a great game against eventual champ Villanova in the Elite Eight - it proved that Nova should have been a 1 seed not a 2, and the two teams should have met in the Final Four. KU hardly "underachieved." They barely lost to the best team.
    KU is as good a pick as anyone this year, and Self is a good pick for national COY in my book.
     
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  16. CarlHungus

    CarlHungus Well-Known Member

    Feb 19, 2012
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    I mean, I guess if you compare them to another blue blood like Duke, then they probably have underachieved. That's a high bar though
     
  17. trajanJ

    trajanJ Well-Known Member

    Sep 11, 2008
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    The short answer to every coach in the world would be yes if you have to live up to your seed every year and you have good teams every year. UK might be the exception because they are so young every year that they get better as the year goes, but with the parity of college basketball in today's game, anybody can win once you get to the 2nd round. In the last 10 years Duke has lost 3 times in the first round. Only once in the history of the tournament has all 4 #1 seeds made it to the Final Four. BTW, that was 2008 and KU won that one.
     
  18. brokenloginagain

    brokenloginagain Well-Known Member

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    if embiid doesn't get injured they have another national championship.
     
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  19. cyclones500

    cyclones500 Well-Known Member

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    Self-coached teams that have been eliminated in the tournament by a lower seed:
    2000: (7) Tulsa vs. (8) UNC (forgivable, since Tulsa beat a 2 and 3 to reach Elite 8, and UNC beat an 8 and a 4)
    2001: (1) Illinois vs. (2) Arizona (Elite 8) (no biggie)
    2003: (4) Illinois vs. (5) Notre Dame (Round of 32) (negligible)
    2005: (3) Kansas vs. (14) Bucknell (round of 64)
    2006: (4) Kansas vs. (13) Bradley (round of 64)
    2007: (1) Kansas vs. (2) UCLA (Elite 8) no big deal
    2010: (1) Kansas vs. (9) UNI (Round of 32)
    2011: (1) Kansas vs. (11) VCU (Elite 8)
    2014: (2) Kansas vs. (10) Stanford (Round of 32)
    2015: (2) Kansas vs. (7) Wichita State (Round of 32)
    2016: (1) Kansas vs. (2) Villanova (Elite 8) (obviously forgivable)

    This does not diminish his pedigree as a coach or regular-season accomplishments, and he does have Final Four appearances and a title …and I’m sure other future HOF’ers could be judged in a similar manner.

    But as far as tournament underachievement, jeepers creepers.
     
  20. trajanJ

    trajanJ Well-Known Member

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    That's a big "if" since he hasn't gone a year without getting injured dating back to his junior year in high school. Could be an all-time great but his body just can't take it.
     

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