Anyone follow the “speedâ€￾ numbers from the combine…….

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by cmhawks99, Mar 1, 2009.

  1. cmhawks99

    cmhawks99 Well-Known Member

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    #1 cmhawks99, Mar 1, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
    1st off many on here know I am on record saying that the Big 10 is not slower than the Big 12 or SEC, and I believe the evidence over the last several years in the form of draft picks combine/Pro-days bare this out. This however isn’t what I care to talk about per se. I mentioned it right off the bat so we could try and keep the conference affiliation and cheer leading stuff out of the way. My goal is to have an intelligent conversation (with the best site on the web) about the ambiguity of these speed times. I tuned in to the DB portion of the combines (I DVR’d it) to watch Bradley Fletcher from Iowa run and because I like to catalogue info in my head for future debates………..:wink:

    While watching many, many of these guys are running what are “allegedly†slow 40 times. Which here are my major conundrums and I’ll give you examples in a minute………….

    1# We have long held the belief that WR and DB’s (CB’s in particular) should all run 4.4 something’s & occasionally 4.3’s But this isn't even close to accurate!!!

    2# We are continually told that these high school kids ran a â€â€â€â€4.4â€â€â€â€ forty at an electronically timed camp only to find out four years later he runs a 4.6 at near the same weight?!?

    3# We are regularly lead to believe that all the fast kids live in the South and that those universities and conferences are faster as a result?

    4# A kid comes in at 4.4 and looks like he is pulling a plow his whole career and a 4.66 kid is a blur and in on every play.

    I think you get the drift. Truly these 40 times mean absolute bumpkus. It may raise your draft status but either you can play football or you can’t. Sometimes a kid scores a really fast time and IS that good. But more often that not WR’s in the NFL aren’t 4.4 kids but rather 4.55 to 4.65 and they are studs. Ala Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald.
    Also we think all Lbers should run 4.55 to 4.6 forties with 4.7 being the absolute low end, but plenty run 4.8’s and are still very “quick“. The point being it isn’t the 40 times that make them fast but rather reflexes, agility, “smarts†instinct, effort and study. This is all fresh in my head again because I constantly have these battles with Iowa fans trying to short change our kids who they deem as 2nd class athletes. Brett Greenwood being the latest, especially with 2 safeties transferring out.

    Here are some interesting D-back times from the combine, (which I haven’t even finished)…………

    Malcom Jenkins Ohio St……….universally considered the number 1 corner ran a 4.55. #2 Vontate Davis from Illinois ran a 4.43

    Emmanuel Cook superstar safety from South Carolina ran a 4.67 & 4.61. Which for a safety isn’t terrible though we have been lead to believe it is. On a side note for the Iowa fans if you are reading I guarantee Greenwood runs at least that fast but likely better.

    Kevin Ellison a HUGE 225 lb sfty from USC ran a 4.82

    Cary Harris CB from USC only ran a 4.58.………..is this slow or are we mislead?!

    Nic Harris Sfty from Oklahoma ran a 4.78 and a 4.85, though he is HUGE at 235 and will probably move to Lber in the NFL! All the same he was a Dang big Sfty, makes you wonder how he covered WR’s at all?

    Lendy Holmes Oklahoma, came in as a WR and is allegedly a terrific athlete. He ran a 4.74 & 4.71, so is he a good athlete or not? I say he is, even though his 40 time was “slowâ€!

    Obviously there are more and this is hardly new this year. The truth is I think we have a misconception of what makes a team or a player fast. Looking at these numbers one might say, WOW I guess OU is actually slow. Or how can a kid play in the D-backfield running a time like that @ USC. For comparison (have to get a small Iowa pub in……….:cool:) Iowa put a kid in the NFL last year Godfrey at 4.38 and Fletcher this year ran a 4.47 at least that’s what they flashed as unofficial!

    What’s my point you ask? Well I think there are a lot of “fast†teams out there, including Iowa and the Big 10 as a whole. But more importantly what we define as speed isn’t as easily measured as we think.

    Sorry for the length, but this is a neat subject and I would enjoy some thoughts…………..

    Chad
     
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  2. CyDude16

    CyDude16 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they define speed as a team speed rather then few individuals?
     
  3. cmhawks99

    cmhawks99 Well-Known Member

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    I concur but then again lets toss out 2 more USC players. Uber athlete Lber Brian Cushing ran a 4.74 and Maluaga ?sp? conveniently pulled up lame. All the same he isn't faster than Cushing. So there you have 4 players off what is thought to be one of the best/fastest D's of all time running less than great 40 times.

    Once again I watched them play. I too thought they were fast but those aren't super fast times if you see what I'm saying. We are looking at the wrong things, and maybe there are plenty of fast D's out there in unlikely places.

    Chad
     
  4. TitanClone

    TitanClone Well-Known Member

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    Theres a difference in speed based on your 40 and speed on the field. A lot of the Big 10 thing is the games are slow and boring. Which leads us to believe that the players are slower.

    Speed on the field isn't just in a straight line. You have to be able to change direction and keep going, this is where the Big 10 is slow.
     
  5. cmhawks99

    cmhawks99 Well-Known Member

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    #5 cmhawks99, Mar 1, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009
    1# This is true...........

    2# This seems plausible............

    3# I seriously don't want this to turn into a Big 10 vs. Big 12 peeing match but this isn't true. I know Iowa isn't the entirety of the Big 10 so to speak............But they historically have electric shuttle and Pro-agility times. In fact when comparing Ace Bowen and Mike Humpal from last year. Hump was a little faster in the 40 but waaaayyyyyy quicker in the others.

    Chad
     
  6. ISUAlum2002

    ISUAlum2002 Well-Known Member

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    Great post.
     
  7. cmhawks99

    cmhawks99 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly I'm more interested in the ambiguity of the numbers than proving one conference is superior to the other. I happen to think they are similar, yet cyclical. The speed numbers are comparable.

    Chad
     
  8. TitanClone

    TitanClone Well-Known Member

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    I remember Chris Johnson running like a 4.24, or something close to that, a couple of years ago.

    So some of the numbers in the original post could be considered "slow".
     
  9. Cycofan1

    Cycofan1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm reading an Seneca Wallace ran a 4.5 40. Good for a quarterback.
     
  10. gocy444

    gocy444 Well-Known Member

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    i run a low 5:smile:
     
  11. cmhawks99

    cmhawks99 Well-Known Member

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    See inadvertently or intentionally you guys are on to what I'm taking about. Johnson did run a 4.24, but many, many other Rbers didn't and they are studs.

    Furthermore most NFL QBs have run 4.8 to 5.0 and starred (really has little to with being a QB) while Senecca has been a journeyman.

    What really makes a person fast or a future hall of famer? For every Chris Johson there are more Emmit Smiths or Terrel Davis's. 4.6 or 4.7 studs!

    Chad
     
  12. bigcyfan82

    bigcyfan82 Active Member

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    My biggest thing is that a pure 40 time DOES NOT prove football speed. When on the football field are you going to run a straight line with no pads on??? NEVER!!!

    If you want a good measure of speed, make them run 40 yards with leg and shoulder pads, and with a helmet on. then you can see who is "football fast"
     
  13. illinoiscyclone

    illinoiscyclone Well-Known Member

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    most of the studs are going to be fast, and arent representative of the conference as a whole.

    40 speed differs on from field speed

    on a related note, i found this survey hilarious.


    How would you best describe Ohio State's offense?

    • Like plate tectonics, but without the awesome explosions and earthquakes (39.0%, 1,085 Votes)
    • Like two sloths tearing open a stone crab (22.0%, 608 Votes)
    • Like lightning made of slow (20.0%, 557 Votes)
    • Like two Ents having sex (20.0%, 546 Votes)
    Total Voters: 2,796
     
  14. Shinyhappyclone

    Shinyhappyclone Active Member

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    Watch the tape. Guys running NFL teams watch tape. Combines are for Jerry Maguire-wannbes and team agents to butt heads with and only make theatrics. The Combine is theater.

    You need to look at tapes to find the ball players, and then just choose amongst the least-gangsta/alcoholic/bong-hitting of the lot. I guess Larry Fitzgerald wasn't an altar boy, but it looks like he had a foundation of which he could grow into a man of character...and the skills are outstanding.

    Watch tape. Any team that doesn't pick Crabtree #1 at wideout is insane, I don't care what his 40 is or his height. Unless there are camera photos of him hitting the water pipe, he is your #1. Same goes for db's and linebackers or any position.
     
  15. Cydkar

    Cydkar Well-Known Member

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    2 words....football speed. 2 more words....Jerry Rice. 2 more words....Emmitt Smith. I could go on.

    40 times are overrated.

    Team speed can be seen with the naked eye with no stopwatch.
     
  16. cmhawks99

    cmhawks99 Well-Known Member

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    Good stuff here................

    Definitely I agree they should run in pads and on a football field.

    Also I agree the tape and actual football playing is the true indicator of a "football player".

    Finally I'm not sure what to make of the comment most studs are fast and aren't indicative of the conference as a whole.................

    I think the studs, are fast on the football field. But per combine times often they aren't. As for tOSU, I know it was a joke. All the same they have put fast kids at all positions in the NFL for years. In fact I believe they have more NFL players than anyone and no they aren't primarily linemen. In fact they have a ton of DB's, WR's and Lbers!

    Chad
     
  17. cmhawks99

    cmhawks99 Well-Known Member

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    This is how I think as well.

    Chad
     
  18. illinoiscyclone

    illinoiscyclone Well-Known Member

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    yeah the poll was just for this year though. per everydayshouldbesaturday.com
     
  19. iccyfan

    iccyfan Well-Known Member

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    Then why do you bring up slow Oklahoma players and repeatedly cite fast UI and OSU players? Why did you feel the need to compare Humpal to Bowen?

    You protesteth too much and aren't very good at hiding your true agenda. The big ten versus Big XII relative speed topic is interesting anyway...
     
  20. cmhawks99

    cmhawks99 Well-Known Member

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    #20 cmhawks99, Mar 1, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2009

    We always digress back to the area of info we know the most about. Also you wouldn't have been interested if the Big 12 wasn't involved and tOSU was brought up by another. I used a tOSU player with a questionable 40 time for a CB example?

    Now what..................

    Chad

    PS…………..I don’t know if any of you have wife’s or girlfriends who find this or rather these “sports†message boards irritating if not obsessive?! But here was a little snippet my wife added to my initial post while I was away from the computer and before it got “sentâ€. I cut it out and kept it as I found it humorous. Thought you guys might enjoy it too….


    â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€I am a huge poop spewer, just like the rest of you. I am sure my wanker is bigger than any of yours, so it justifies me to write any crap I want on these web sites. I will soon be having much more time for you fellas, because my wife is going to separate from me.â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€â€

    Ain't she hilarious.............:skeptical:

    Signed,

    The lovely and ever witty Mrs. McCleary
     

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