Anyone else getting tired of the crappy officiating?

Discussion in 'CF Archive Bin' started by letsgostate, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. letsgostate

    letsgostate Member

    Nov 4, 2006
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    I thought the Mizzou game was the worst officiating bias against Iowa State I've ever seen. Play after play of no call holding. And more of the same yesterday. I don't want to whine, but why should your won loss record impact officials calling the game correctly? Yesterday was more of the same. Other than the blown call for a KSU touchdown, it all went their way. From an obvious grounding call that was reversed, to holding all over the place and even a defensive holding call against an ISU defensive lineman (that's a creative call) we did not get equal treatment. I wonder if the Big 12 looks at film? Chiziks remark after the long review of a non reviewable play "the refs helped us all day...just kidding." tells it all.
     
  2. ISUAlum2002

    ISUAlum2002 Well-Known Member

    Apr 11, 2006
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    Like Chuck Reed said a couple of weeks ago....officials know which team is *supposed* to win.

    You could see the change in officiating style after halftime. I hate being the conspiracy theorist, but its odd that nearly the entire first half all the kickoff coverages were clean, but after halftime, we couldn't receive a kickoff without getting called for a block in the back. And you're right, the defensive holding call was very creative. I don't think I've ever seen that called before on a lineman, and I've watched a lot of football. Not only that, but the enforcement of the penalty. It was not a personal foul, so it should not have been added to the end of the run. K-State should have gotten the choice to either take the penalty and replay the down, or take the result of the play. But they got the play AND the penalty yardage, that was absolutely brutal.

    Chizik went nuts on one play where the holding was absolutely plain as day and happened right in front of Cooper Castleberry, but he did nothing.

    K-State was only called for holding ONE TIME, and it was by one of their receivers. Their line did not get called for a single hold all game long.
     
  3. ketelmeister

    ketelmeister Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2006
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    I was at the Missouri game, and the holding on MO was even worse than KSU did. It's crazy.
     
  4. wartknight

    wartknight Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2006
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    They replayed all the illegal blocks by us on TV and they were called correctly.
    I would be a fan of adding 2 more officials to the 7 man crew. Have 1 split the backfield duties with the white hat, and have another at the same level as the umpire.
    The game is a TON faster than what it was when they decided to use 7 officials.
     
  5. gwoodclone

    gwoodclone Well-Known Member

    Jul 11, 2007
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    The officiating has been horrible. I didn't see what happened on the defensive holding call, but everyone else was booing, so I decided it must have been a bad call. But the holding on the next play was so blatantly obvious I couldn't believe they didn't call it. If they're going to favor one team, they could at least be less obvious about it:wink: But I'm always happy to see Chizik get on the refs everytime there is a bad call. Its good to know we've got a guy who is going to fight for us.
     
  6. DMBclone

    DMBclone Member

    Nov 27, 2006
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    At Chizik's post game press conference he even said I want to thank the refs for helping us with today, thats just a joke im only kidding.

    What is defensive holding? Could it be grabbing the face mask? Either way I thought it was a crappy call
     
  7. chuckd4735

    chuckd4735 Well-Known Member

    Mar 29, 2006
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    I thought they called penalties on both sides on the grounding call...grounding on KSU, and facemask on us?
     
  8. dinger

    dinger Well-Known Member

    Apr 20, 2006
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    yeah im tired of it. but i love how chizik gets in the refs faces when he isnt happy. i will take 2 more games of anti-isu officiating if i get to see chiz blow up and be animated again on the sidelines...or even all the way out to the hash marks.
     
  9. Wesley

    Wesley Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2006
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    And they did not even know if play was reviewable. Pathetic. They better keep their day jobs.
     
  10. Steve

    Steve Well-Known Member

    Apr 11, 2006
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    The holding penalty on the DL is confusing to many because it is so rarely called. Strictly speaking, defensive players can only use their hands to grab or hold an offensive player while in the act of getting to the ball carrier. They are not allowed, for example, to pull an offensive lineman out of the way to clear a lane for a teammate to block a kick. Nor is a DL allowed to hold an OL to keep him from getting out to block a LB. In reality these actions happen multiple times during a game, but are almost always ignored by the officiating crew. Note to pinkle - the call is probably even more rare than a holding penalty inside the 5 yd during the last minute of a game. Maybe you can help get an apology from the Big 12 office for us.

    You can certainly question the crew for making the call in the first place. Given the call, however, the penalty assessment was indeed correct. Defensive holding on a run is assessed from what is called the basic spot. On a positive gain play, this is where the run ends. On a run that loses yardage, the basic spot would go back to the previous spot before marking off the penalty.
     
  11. isuarch80

    isuarch80 Active Member

    Sep 25, 2006
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    The grounding call was also correct - the RB was within just a couple yards. NFL QB's do this all the time from within the pocket - throwing the ball at the feet of their "blocking" RB in the middle of being pressured quickly. It's a smart play.

    Steve - excellent write up about defensive holding. No one could have explained it better and the call is not "creative". :)

    I actually think the reffing has been fine. Obviously, the only game changing call was the blown sideline call against KSU. That changed the end of the game for them and for us. We'll take it. I'd also love to see any person go out their and try to catch "everything" that they "think" they see, or say they could call that. There are so many details of every play that each ref is responsible for that there is stuffed missed EVERY play. The home crowd only boos because we want all of the calls to be in our favor.
    As being good ISU fans - lets keep off criticizing the refs so much and keep cheering on our guys, criticize the mistakes that our team makes, and applaud the great plays we do make.

    Sincerely,
    Referree in Iowa and Texas (High School football)
     
  12. ISUAlum2002

    ISUAlum2002 Well-Known Member

    Apr 11, 2006
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    Yeah, Brent Blum talked about the call during the post game SoundOff show and thought it was correct. But like you said, it is called so infrequently that its just odd that it happened to come kind of in a string of other calls (and non-calls) that made it look like they were doing all they could to get K-State back into the game.

    I understand your explanation of the assessment of the penalty, but I don't agree with it if that is indeed the way it is written in the rulebook. I mean, think about it, if an offensive lineman holds, but the defense is still able to get the sack, shouldn't the penalty then be assessed from the point of the sack? If the penalties were assessed consistently, this would make sense. However, offensive holding can only either be declined with taking the result of the play or assessed from the line of scrimmage.

    Lets remember here that the conference loses money if we don't fill our bowl allotments. Just like that KU vs. UT game where the officials called KU for an offensive pass interference, another infrequently called penalty, that negated a catch that would have allowed them to run out the clock on Tejas.
     
  13. ketelmeister

    ketelmeister Well-Known Member

    Oct 24, 2006
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    The refing has not been fine, I disagree. I know what holding is, and at the Missou game, there was blatent holding over and over again. Chizik was going crazy, and for good reason. And for an official to make a call that is NEVER made at a critical point in the game makes no sense.
     
  14. isuarch80

    isuarch80 Active Member

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    I probably see the defensive holding call made once every weekend (and that's just out of the games I am watching/see), either in college or NFL - and it shouldn't matter what point in the game it is.
    We're all acting like it cost us the game - when in reality, the reffing actually helped keep our boys in a two posession lead.
     
  15. ISUAlum2002

    ISUAlum2002 Well-Known Member

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    You're probably seeing defensive holding calls being made against DB's, not linemen. Defensive holding calls against DB's are very common, especially in the NFL. But against defensive linemen.....well, like I said earlier, that was the first time I'd ever seen it called, and I watch a LOT of football. College and pro (and high school, for that matter).
     
  16. isuarch80

    isuarch80 Active Member

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    Nope, not what I meant - but I'll agree to disagree.
     
  17. CyCloned

    CyCloned Well-Known Member

    Oct 18, 2006
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    My thoughts on holding: It is like rough play in BB. If the refs are not calling it, you better start playing physical too or the game is over. ISU has not been called for holding very much this year, so maybe they need to start grabbing a little more.
     
  18. cstrunk

    cstrunk Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2006
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    Isn't there supposed to be some kind of new Big 12 rule that reprimands coaches for saying something about the officiating?? I remember talk about this after the Missouri game of last year. Or am I thinking basketball?

    I think they call it a "gag rule"?
     
  19. herbicide

    herbicide Well-Known Member

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    There's always been such a rule, if coaches say something negative about the officials they are subject to fines.
     
  20. jdoggivjc

    jdoggivjc Well-Known Member

    Sep 27, 2006
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    No, it's because of the nature of the holding call. A holding call isn't an automatic 10 yard penalty - the team has the decision as to whether they want to have the penalty enforced or not. If the holding penalty is enforced, the officials mark off the 10 yards (and I think it's from the spot of the foul) and the down is replayed. If the penalty is declined, the result of the play is accepted and you proceed as if nothing happened. That's where strategy comes in - say you get a 5 yard sack on first down, but the offense has been flagged for holding. do you take the penalty and make it 1st and 20, or do you decline the penalty and make it 2nd and 15?

    And actually, the holding call is very consistent with "live ball" penalties. All live ball penalties on the offensive side of the ball (save the intentional grounding penalty) come with the option of either accepting the penalty and throwing out the play or declining the penalty and accepting the result of the play. With the exception of the intentional grounding penalty, I can't think of another penalty where you "get your cake and eat it too" (and the grounding penalty only enforces what would have been the sack had the QB not grounded it - you only get the yardage where the penalty occurred and the loss of down - nothing else is added on top of that loss). False start and other procedure penalties don't get that option because the ball is dead when the penalty occurred, so the down never occurred in the first place. Personal foul penalties are of a different nature, as it's punishment for unnecessary "extracurricular" actions by a player or a team (they usually occur when the ball is dead). They're going to be marked off after the result of a play, and holding doesn't fit into this category because it's not a personal foul in nature.
     

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