Alright Blum....

Discussion in 'Mens Basketball' started by mt85, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. mt85

    mt85 Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2006
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    As the resident Cyclone Fanatic supervisor of officials, I need to get your opinion. There was a 2-3 minute stretch in last nights game where one official was involved in three plays that ultimately led to Baylor's Brady Heslip scoring 9 points during the last minute of the 1st half and the first couple of minutes of the second half. I personally felt this stretch was critical in the outcome of last nights game.


    1) This play involved Edozie closing out late on Heslip on a missed three. 1st) The official didn't blow his whistle until the ball was off the rim. If you agreed that there was a foul should he have been awarded a shooting foul, or should it have been a foul on the floor?

    Edozie lands left of the shooter and is clearly planted before Heslip decides to Marcus Smart himself to the ground. Was he indeed fouled on the shot? Was there enough grey area there to warrant a call?



    2) At the beginning of the second half, the same official is positioned on the baseline and Baylor is running Heslip off a couple of screens to get him open for a three point shot. First, Baylor's Royce O' Neale runs across the lane to chip Monte Morris which creates initial seperation between Heslip and Morris. Then as Morris trails on the baseline. Austin slides a couple of feet sides ways and hips Morris which gives Heslip enough separation to make a three point shot. The same official as the first play is positioned three feet from where Austin slides down and hips Morris. The replay showed him positioned to clearly see this happen. Was that a moving screen? Was it acceptable for the official to miss that call? Keep in mind that we are talking about a lanky 7 footer that is a few feet in front of the official.

    3) Only a few moments later in the same area on the court Baylor again runs Heslip off a screen and Austin again slides sideways to impede Morris and Heslip gets enough separation to hit another three. Should that have been called a moving screen, and if so is it excusable for a big twelve official to miss back to back moving screens or am I being to critical?
     
  2. oldman

    oldman Well-Known Member

    Nov 5, 2009
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    I'd like to add that on a breakaway lay-up attempt by Kane, it looked to me like he got fouled as he left the ground to shoot, but they called it on the floor. Opinion?
     
  3. Cyclonin

    Cyclonin Well-Known Member

    Feb 18, 2012
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    Im not Blum, but the moving screen is like holding in football it seems. Happens more often than not (Georges is no stranger), but is a judgement foul as opposed to a clear cut kind of foul (although by definition it should be clear cut).

    As far as the Heslip 3 that he was fouled on. I have no idea. I would think he is still in the act of shooting (although it didn't really alter the shot in any way), it is considered a shooting foul.
     
  4. Cyclonin

    Cyclonin Well-Known Member

    Feb 18, 2012
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    I think the refs last night knew how disappointed our fans and Fred were in our FT shooting, so they did their best to not have to put us through that.
     
  5. klamath632

    klamath632 Well-Known Member

    Nov 19, 2011
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    [video=youtube;YVVTZgwYwVo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVVTZgwYwVo[/video]
     
  6. brentblum

    brentblum Brett Blume
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    Jul 26, 2007
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    #6 brentblum, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
    Missing 3 calls all game is pretty good! :spinny:

    This is a really good post and I actually agree with all of these criticisms.

    1. Fouls on a three point attempt are some of the hardest to see due to positioning. One official should be watching the shooter at all times, but human nature sometimes makes the official ball-watch and out of the corner of the eye they see contact and call a foul. It didn't appear to be much of a foul.

    2/3. Baylor did appear to be setting very loose screens. They were getting away with it all night. In a perfect world, they would have been whistled for fouls, but last night the officials were allowing a lot of contact. There were only 26! fouls called all game, which is extremely low. The nickle and dime stuff was not getting called and that's how it goes I guess.

    Valid points and they did impact the game. I don't think they were egregious errors that are inexcusable though. On the other hand, Melvin and Georges going 5-26 may be inexcusable. :smile:
     
  7. mt85

    mt85 Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2006
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    Thanks for your insight.
     
  8. CoKane

    CoKane Well-Known Member

    Oct 26, 2013
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    Anyone else notice that Issiah Austin set 2 moving screens on Morris when Heslip hit 2 of his 3s?
     
  9. wcamnclone

    wcamnclone Member

    Oct 24, 2008
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    Do you think as conference play has progressed, that the "rules of emphasis" to begin the year like the hand-checking or impeding progress rules have regressed and no longer being called consistently? I think we need to replace Mr. Curtis Shaw as Big 12 coordinator of officials with Mr. Blum.
     
  10. wcamnclone

    wcamnclone Member

    Oct 24, 2008
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    And I will clarify, in no way do I think the officials lost us the game last night. It was just a poor effort and not being ready to play on our end.
     
  11. State43

    State43 Well-Known Member

    Nov 22, 2010
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    Blum: Being a ref is hard...
     
  12. brentblum

    brentblum Brett Blume
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    Jul 26, 2007
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    Ha! They have certainly called fewer fouls over than the pre-conferece season. Not sure if this is because of relaxation of the points of emphasis or the team's adjusting, but something to watch for sure.

    I actually think Iowa State may fare better in the NCAA tournament because those games are usually more tightly called and closely monitored. (Unless Niang gets 2 fouls in the first 5 minutes that is. )
     
  13. Bigman38

    Bigman38 Well-Known Member

    Jul 27, 2010
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    As long as we're throwing random stuff out there....can someone with reffing knowledge explain how goaltending works when it comes to trapping the ball against the glass? I always thought that trapping it was goaltending but after the last few weeks I'm pretty confident I'm completely wrong, or just missing some nuances of the rule.
     
  14. brentblum

    brentblum Brett Blume
    Staff Member

    Jul 26, 2007
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    The ball has to be completely above the basket ring in order for goal-tending to be called once it hits the back-board. This is often misunderstood.
     
  15. bos

    bos Legend
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    Apr 10, 2006
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    Freezes everything she touches. 6/10 Still would.
     
  16. ArgentCy

    ArgentCy Well-Known Member

    Jan 13, 2010
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    Hmm, I did not kniw that, I thought that it was goal tending if it hits the board first. I did think the Baylor guy blocked it right before it ht the board.
     
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  17. chuckd4735

    chuckd4735 Well-Known Member

    Mar 29, 2006
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    I don't consider myself an officiating expert, but those two were competently obvious on TV IN REAL TIME.
     
  18. wonkadog

    wonkadog Well-Known Member

    Apr 17, 2006
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    The ball cannot be on its downward trajectory coming off the backboard on a shot attempt. If touched at that point you have goaltending/basket interference.
     
  19. iowast8fan

    iowast8fan Well-Known Member

    Aug 3, 2006
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    I agree, I was screaming at my tv, "that's a moving screen, call the offensive foul!" followed by twish! 3 points! Then, they replayed the 3-point shot to show how "great" it was, and the moving screen was even more obvious. Austin slid over about 3 feet to make that screen. I was shocked that the TV announces didn't say anything wwhen they replayed because of how obvious it was. I was expecting something like, "looks like Austin got away with a big moving screen, but great stroke by Heslip"

    In that same series where Heslip was on fire 3-3, on the other end, Ejim was putting up some horrible 3 point shots. When he is having trouble hitting a bunny from 3 feet, I'm not sure how wise it is to put up a 3-point shot. Every 3-point attempt by Ejim was very short, nearly air-balled. He just seemed really off last night. I expect him to have a ridiculously great game on senior night. He doesn't have games like last night very often.
     
  20. wonkadog

    wonkadog Well-Known Member

    Apr 17, 2006
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    I would support a petition to replace Shaw with anyone as long as he doesn't get to stay in that cushy position. Heck, put in Charles Barkley, Shaq, Oscar the Grouch, freaking Ed Hightower....anyone is better than that a-hole who screwed us in the elite 8.
     

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