2005 vs 2011 talent

Discussion in 'Football' started by jaretac, Jul 8, 2011.

  1. jaretac

    jaretac Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2006
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    #1 jaretac, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2011

    Comparing position by position talent for the 2011 squad (based on the spring depth chart) versus the talent of our 2005 team


    Offense
    ......2005...............2011..................Better Player
    QB....Bret Meyer.........Jerome Tiller.........Meyer
    RB....Stevie Hicks.......Shontrelle Johnson....Hicks
    FB....Ryan Kock..........Jeff Woody............Kock
    WR....Todd Bylthe........Darius Reynolds.......Bylthe
    WR....Austin Flynn.......Josh Lenz.............Flynn
    WR....Jon Davis..........Darius Darks..........Davis
    TE....Ben Barkema........Kurt Hammerschmidt....Hammerschmidt
    LT....Scott Fisher.......Kelechi Osemele.......Osemele
    LG....Kory Pence.........Ethan Tuftee..........Pence
    C.....Scot Stephenson....Tom Farniok...........Stephenson
    RG....Seth Zehr..........Hayworth Hicks........Hicks
    RT....Aaron Brant........Brayden Burris........Brant
    2005..9 players
    2009..3 players

    Notes-
    -We really don't have a FB in the new system so I took the #2 running back for 2011
    -We have so many newer guys on the Oline and that really is a position that benifits from experience so I have to go with Pence and Stephenson for now. Brant and Burris is a bit of a toss up.
    -I don't think our starting lineup will look like this for our first game

    Defense
    ......2005...............2011..................Better Player
    RE....Cephus Johnson.....Roosevelt Maggitt.....Maggitt
    NG....Nick Leaders......Stephen Ruempolhamer...Leaders
    DT....Brent Curvey.......Jake McDonough........Curvey
    LE....Jason Berryman.....Jacob Lattimer........Berryman
    SLB...Jamarr Buchanan....A.J. Klein............Klein
    MLB...Tim Dobbins........Matt Tau’ fo’ ‘o......Dobbins
    WLB...Matt Robertson.....Jake Knott............Knott
    LCB...DeAndre Jackson....Jeremy Reeves.........Jackson
    RCB...LaMarcus Hicks.....Leonard Johnson.......Johnson
    SS....Nik Moser..........Ter’Ran Benton........Benton
    FS....Steve Paris........Jacques Washington....Paris
    2005..6 players
    2009..5 players

    Notes-
    -We are still rather young on defense but I see reason to be excited. I believe by the end of this season we will see a lot more current players in the last column.


    Special Teams
    ......2005...............2011..................Better Player
    PK....Bret Culbertson....Grant Mahoney.........Mahoney
    P.....Tony Yelk..........Kirby Van Der Kamp....Kamp
    PR....Ryan Baum..........Leonard Johnson.......Baum
    KR....DeAndre Jackson....Leonard Johnson.......Johnson
    2005..1 players
    2009..3 players

    Notes-
    -Yelk could coffin corner the ball like a pro, but I think Kamp is better and more consistent
    -PK is actually more of a toss up then I expected even last year, but I still think Mahoney is better, however just slightly.


    Thoughts?
     
  2. Cyhart

    Cyhart Well-Known Member

    Aug 15, 2009
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    Im assuming you didnt mean to put "2009" at the top of one of your columns?

    I think some of these are yet to be determined. For instance, you have Hicks over Shontrelle. But if someone put a gun to my head and said, do you think that when its all said and done, Shontrelle will have a better career than Stevie? Id say yes without hesitation.
    You also have Meyer vs Tiller. But Jantz could end up being better than both of them. Time will tell.
    So my thoughts are, a bit too early to compare some of these players.
     
  3. Al_4_State

    Al_4_State Well-Known Member

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    Mahoney's % pales in comparisons to Culbertson's. Both are/were terrible though.

    I would take Moser over Benton.

    Wasn't Shawn Moorehead the starting DE opposite Berryman? I remember him playing more than Cephus Johnson.

    Woody is a better every down back than Kock.
     
  4. bostrem00

    bostrem00 Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2009
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    Wouldn't comparing 2004 to 2011 be more accurating considering how much ISU lost from those 2 yrs...
     
  5. cycloneman003

    cycloneman003 Well-Known Member

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    #5 cycloneman003, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
    pretty accurate i think. a few could be argued, but 2005 was a REALLY talented team. they should have done a lot more but thats another story.

    the only one i might change is picking one of the 2011 recievers over Davis.. that guy had some issues dropping balls if i remember right.

    ...also agree with LJ being picked over Hicks, but Lamarcus was pretty damn good!
     
  6. delt4cy

    delt4cy Well-Known Member

    May 11, 2006
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    Agree with most of the list but it's a tough choice at RB for me.

    Some games Hicks was an all out beast, others he got lost at the LOS.

    Johnson definitely has a quicker burst from the LOS but won't be able to scrap out 3yd after contact like Stevie could.

    Hicks is better comparing stats, but I think Johnson has the potential to be better.
     
  7. dualthreat

    dualthreat Well-Known Member

    Oct 8, 2008
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    How would you like that LB crew? Knott-Dobbins-Klein?
     
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  8. cc1091

    cc1091 Member

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    I hate speaking ill of Stevie, but there were many games where I was very disappointed in his ability to read the blocks and find the hole. (I'm glad he did have that one glorious second half in the comeback at KSU)

    Shontrell impresses me that he can both see the hole in the line, and turn on the jets to slip through.

    Every runner is a little different though.
     
  9. jaretac

    jaretac Well-Known Member

    Nov 26, 2006
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    Yes I did mean 2011. I did this a couple years ago and I stole the formatting, just forgot to change the date.

    I agree with your sentiment and said as much in my notes. I'm just basing my answers on the last depth chart available. This would obviously be more accurate just before the first game when we know for sure who are starters are.

    Also, I'm not trying to limit any of our guys. Right now our young guys just don't have the experience, in time though they may very well be better!

    One thing I do find disconcerting is that in 2009 we had a lot more guys beating out 2005 players. I don't find this disconcerting in the idea that we are getting worse, because I do believe we have more depth; however, we have undeveloped depth. This might make us really really good next year, but for this year it may very well be a tough year.
     
  10. clone4good

    clone4good Member

    Oct 27, 2009
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    Lamarcus hicks is better than leonard Johnson. dude was a stud.
     
  11. cycloneman003

    cycloneman003 Well-Known Member

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    i think we under-rate leonard a little bit ourselves just because hes here right now and we take him for granted... LJ is on hell of a CB. Certainly the best one we've had since DeAndre and Lamarcus
     
  12. pulse

    pulse Well-Known Member

    Mar 24, 2006
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    I'd take Moser too. I'd also take LaMarcus Hicks hands down. The defensive unit in 2005 was better, mainly because the DL was so much better.
     
  13. Al_4_State

    Al_4_State Well-Known Member

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    Hicks was solid, but I think Johnson has more NFL potential.

    If we just had that same DL, LJ would have 1st round stats.
     
  14. pulse

    pulse Well-Known Member

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    That's the thing. I can remember Hicks and his great interceptions. When I think of LJ, nothing about him making plays comes to mind.
     
  15. cyatheart

    cyatheart Well-Known Member

    Nov 18, 2008
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    Leonard is a stud as well, I think LJ will be better when it is all said and done, but I do agree. Right now Lamarcus Hicks was the better player, always felt he was a very underrated player. Not a dig on LJ, I just thought Hicks was that good. Both are outstanding though.
     
  16. ISU_Alum_2000

    ISU_Alum_2000 All-Star

    Oct 21, 2006
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    This is a classic case of how hard it can be to determine how good a CB is.

    His he not making plays because isn't as good, or is he not making plays because the opponent doesn't throw his way very much. Similarly, teams were likely throwing the ball to Hick's side more to avoid Jackson, thus, giving Hicks more opportunities to make plays.

    I think corners are kind of like the OL... often time, the less you hear about them (getting burned), the better.

    And if you want an LJ play to remember from last year - think the Texas game (2nd half, I think), Texas is driving deep in our territory, LJ makes a leaping INT on the sideline and keeps the toes in bounds. Awesome play.
     
  17. jaretac

    jaretac Well-Known Member

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    No doubt about it, Hicks was a good player! I remember many great plays by him, but I also remember a lot of great plays by LJ.

    I do also think Hicks benefits from having been a good player on a great defense, where LJ is/has been a good player on a average to poor defense. It is easier to make plays when the QB is trying to force things because of good coverage by the whole unit.

    Also, at the end of 2005 Hicks was finishing up his Sr year where LJ is just starting his Sr year. Can we say that Hicks at the end of the 2004 season was better the LJ? If anything it is a toss up between the two.
     
  18. cycloneman003

    cycloneman003 Well-Known Member

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    Lamarcus had a lot of opportunities to make plays because no one ever wanted to throw towards deandre's side... the less times you hear your #1 CB's name called, the better because that means they are staying completely away from whoever he is covering
     
  19. CloneFan4

    CloneFan4 Well-Known Member

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    I think you'd have to go with Stevie as of now but I really think that by the end of the season Shontrelle will prove to be better. I may be hyping him up a bit too much but I really think he's gonna be good. Meyer's 2005 year was really incredible but the last two years he just plain sucked.
     
  20. CylentButDeadly

    CylentButDeadly Well-Known Member

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    This is purely speculative at this point, but I think by the end of this year when we dig up this thread, this year's OL will be thought of as much better than the 05 edition. Furthermore, I think the RB group will be superior and Shontrelle, though a different type of back, will be on equal ground with Stevie Hicks.

    As far as the WRs go, I think they'll play much better and Money could have a breakout year, but the 05 WR group had better top end talent (even if the depth was average).

    QB...we can only hope...

    On defense, I think Dutch could push Leaders and Curvey for PT. It would be a nice 3-man rotation for sure, and I wouldn't be surprised if Dutch works himself into that Rubin, Carstens, Reed, Leaders, Curvey territory when all is said and done. He has potential and has steadily improved each year.

    Berryman was a freak but Lattimer and Moorehead/Johnson might be a push or advantage Latt if he keeps improving his technique to match his motor.

    Klein and Knott are going to be remembered as all time greats when they wrap up their careers, but Dobbins was clearly better than anyone this year's team has in the middle.

    The secondary is interesting. LJ very well could be the best CB we've had since E-Hobbs, but you guys are right, he hasn't made the memorable plays that others did to really distinguish himself and I haven't watched him closely enough to really grasp his talent. Benton is a gamer and could play any position in the secondary and we'll miss him next year. He reminds me of Dejon Gomes from Nebraska who was a very good player. I don't know what we are going to get from the rest of our DBs or if Reeves can take the next step, but we shouldn't be too bad back there.

    As a whole, the 05 team as we all know is the team that "should have been...". I think the current staff is better and the depth might be better (can't tell until season plays out), but the 05 team is still more talented than what we have on paper right now.
     

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