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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    I read that article earlier this morning and even though they say it's not against the rules to enter a cloned animal, that just doesn't seem right.



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    I thought you were going to say that it was the product of a cyclone fan and you were going to claim victory


    'Until things are brighter, I'm the man in black.'

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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    I don't see an issue with this. Animals have been bred so they are better for human consumption. Why not reuse the same genetic info again?



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    I'd venture to say that it's likely not the first cloned animal to be entered/shown in a livestock contest, just the first to win and be put under the regular scrutiny that all champions face.

    garn91, what about it doesn't seem right? I don't have a position. Just wondering.



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Question I have, ignore my ignorance on this. Doesn't it take a sperm or egg to make a clone? This animal, same as the one before was a steer. (no testicles)

    So the first winner would be clone also?



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by garn91 View Post
    I read that article earlier this morning and even though they say it's not against the rules to enter a cloned animal, that just doesn't seem right.
    I don't think it's suitable for a 4-H competition, which is for kids to learn about agriculture and life lessons.
    It's not for a father to intrude and promote his business, which is what this was.



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Clones are perfect safe and fine to eat. That said, its cheating to put it in a fair show.



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    I don't think it's suitable for a 4-H competition, which is for kids to learn about agriculture and life lessons.
    It's not for a father to intrude and promote his business, which is what this was.
    It could be life lessons in a few years. Genetic traits have been selected for many years in animals and plants. This is just a different way of doing it.



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by chadm View Post
    Question I have, ignore my ignorance on this. Doesn't it take a sperm or egg to make a clone? This animal, same as the one before was a steer. (no testicles)

    So the first winner would be clone also?
    Start with a donor egg and remove the nucleus. Then into this egg, you insert DNA from the animal you want to clone. After you know the regular cell division begins, the donor egg is implanted into the chosen surrogate mother. The mother carries and delivers the egg/calf as usual.

    You don't need a clone to make a clone.



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms3r4ISU View Post
    I'd venture to say that it's likely not the first cloned animal to be entered/shown in a livestock contest, just the first to win and be put under the regular scrutiny that all champions face.
    I would say that is highly unlikely. While the technology has improved and is less expensive, it is still cost prohibitive for nearly everyone. Also, you must have access to the genetic material you desire. Dr. Faber (father of showman) is in this business which made expense and the process a much easier hurdle to clear. Also, you must have access to the genetic material you desire.



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms3r4ISU View Post

    garn91, what about it doesn't seem right? I don't have a position. Just wondering.
    Because of the money that's involved with it. Parents shell out a ton of money to show cattle and the payoff at either the local County Fair auction or State Fair auction can be HUGE. I just think these kids should be doing it "the natural way" and not let Science get involved in something that's supposed to teach kids hard work & responsibility. What's there to be learned if a kid is showing a clone of a former champion?



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by chadm View Post
    Question I have, ignore my ignorance on this. Doesn't it take a sperm or egg to make a clone? This animal, same as the one before was a steer. (no testicles)

    So the first winner would be clone also?
    But, and I'm not an ag major so correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, the animal had testes at one time. I would imagine they could freeze the testes and wait to see if the animal was champion. Or that they have a method that splits the diploid cells into haploid cells which they can add to an egg.


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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith86 View Post
    But, and I'm not an ag major so correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, the animal had testes at one time. I would imagine they could freeze the testes and wait to see if the animal was champion. Or that they have a method that splits the diploid cells into haploid cells which they can add to an egg.
    The original material does not need to come from the reproductive organs but rather adult cells. Sometimes a portion of the ear may be retained, for example.



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    Re: State Fair Grand Champion Steer a Clone

    Quote Originally Posted by garn91 View Post
    Because of the money that's involved with it. Parents shell out a ton of money to show cattle and the payoff at either the local County Fair auction or State Fair auction can be HUGE. I just think these kids should be doing it "the natural way" and not let Science get involved in something that's supposed to teach kids hard work & responsibility. What's there to be learned if a kid is showing a clone of a former champion?
    Isn't science already involved with it? These kids aren't showing cattle that have been randomly selected. They are paying for cattle from lines that have been bred for who knows how many years to produce animals with the traits desired by the judges. All that cloning does is take an animal that is a known champion and exactly duplicate its dna. If that champion isn't the pinnacle of what is a good show animal, then it stands to reason that a naturally produced animal (one made with egg and sperm, rather than egg and dna) would have a better chance of winning as it allows for random combination of genes to produce a better animal. Of course, if these kids are able to select for individual genes on the fly,that changes things, but I don't think they're quite to that level yet.


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