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    Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    With all the recent rain we have had. Its been causing me a headache. My basement not finished has a few weak spots. When it rains alot it will leak in and cause the headaches. I dont get the inches or feet of water just streams from around my basement wall. We have a drain that it all drains too (eventually) but our plan is to finish our basement. So what I am wondering is if people have had the same problems I have and if they prefer tiling or sump pumps? Which ones the recommend? Ive looked for sump pumps and are their any name brands, etc. Not sure what to look for, or if anybody does it cheap. Im lost an need help. Come On Cyclone Nation help me out


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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    I'd take advantage of this if you live in the city of Des Moines, I did. http://www.dmgov.org/Departments/PublicWorks/PDF/PPPPApplicationForm.pdf You can get a sump installed for around $1000 so will cost you next to nothing with this program. If you have an older house like me the only way to completely stop the seeping is to waterproof which is expensive. As long as it comes through the floor and not the wall you are OK for finishing, I just set my drywall about 1" off the floor and so far it's stayed dry despite a few seeps this week. They were drying up tonight but I bet after this rain probably haven't stopped yet.


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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by borc4cy View Post
    With all the recent rain we have had. Its been causing me a headache. My basement not finished has a few weak spots. When it rains alot it will leak in and cause the headaches. I dont get the inches or feet of water just streams from around my basement wall. We have a drain that it all drains too (eventually) but our plan is to finish our basement. So what I am wondering is if people have had the same problems I have and if they prefer tiling or sump pumps? Which ones the recommend? Ive looked for sump pumps and are their any name brands, etc. Not sure what to look for, or if anybody does it cheap. Im lost an need help. Come On Cyclone Nation help me out
    When we moved into our house we had some leaks in our basement walls. I scraped any loose spots between bricks and remortared them (very easy). Then I painted all the walls with Drylock paint (not that expensive), and have'nt had one leak in 8 years.



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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    Propane



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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    Sump pumps are just like anything else. You get what you pay for. Our builder put a cheap one in and the motor ceased up in a year. My advice, especially if you are gonig to finish your basement, is to spend the money on a quality pump. $200-$300 now could save you a boat load down the road.



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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    A sump pump will help remove the water from the basement, but you need to stop the water from getting there in the first place if you want to finish the basement. I say fix the leak, and also put in a sump in case it happens again.



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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    BOth?

    Our home is tiled and that drains to a sump that then pumps it away.


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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    You need both. Tile lines intercept the water and direct it to your sump pit.



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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    Quality battery backup sump pump. Don't skimp.

    Tile around. Foundation that has leaks. Keep land around foundation running away from house. Remortar (like said above) and drylock paint.



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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    a lot is going to depend on whats underneath your concrete. If you luck out and find rock you already have the best whole floor tile system built in, just drop in a sump liner, drill some holes in it an add a pump.

    Look where the water comes in and how it goes to the floor drain. any areas that drain directly are not the biggest problem and may want to be left relatively the same so you know where the "weak spot" is. Odds are no matter how much you mortor and paint the water pressure is going to win without a sump pit. In addition having the first spot water comes in exposed and unfinished lets you sleep with comfort if that area is dry.

    If you need to tile you'll probably add the french drain style along your interior walls ... I've heard this isn't all that hard to do yourself but it sounds like a complete pain in the butt. I did my pit myself, that's not a big job and can be done in a day, but I'm sure the whole wall sounds like something you'd want someone else to mess with.

    any areas you do finish just do like everyone is saying - seal as best you can, use some type of sealer paint (oil-based is better, but don't blow your house up) and keep your drywall spaced at least a .5" above the floor (more is better). you might also consider spacing your framing a little off the concrete wall to allow for any moisture buildup.

    oh, and good luck.



  11. #11
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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by drmwevr08 View Post
    BOth?

    Our home is tiled and that drains to a sump that then pumps it away.
    We used Midwest Basement Systems to install our WaterGuard system in our 50 year old Beaverdale home last year. We had the exact same type of water issues you described, small streams of water when we got really heavy rains.

    The system includes a french gutter that sits along the foundation just under the floor. They drilled holes through the cinder block every 2 feet that drain into the gutter. This relieves the pressure on your foundation and stops the leaks above the floor. However, the gutter also has a lip that raises above the floor about 1/4 inch to catch any water that seeps through the foundation during periods of extreme saturation. The gutter system then drains into a sump pump.

    Originally our home did not have a sump pump, just a floor drain like you described. This drove up the price quite a bit as they had to do a lot more workto cut a new hole for the pump to sit in. We got 3/4 of our 900 square foot basement completed for just under $4,200. Then applied for the City of Des Moines' rebate and got $1,000 back. It was the best money I have ever spent, I no longer worry about water in our basement every time we get a storm like this last week.


    Last edited by khess83; 08-10-2010 at 08:48 AM.

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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    Quote Originally Posted by khess83 View Post
    We used Midwest Basement Systems to install our WaterGuard system in our 50 year old Beaverdale home last year. We had the exact same type of water issues you described, small streams of water when we got really heavy rains.

    The system includes a french gutter that sits along the foundation just under the floor. They drilled holes through the cinder block every 2 feet that drain into the gutter. This relieves the pressure on your foundation and stops the leaks above the floor. However, the gutter also has a lip that raises above the floor about 1/4 inch to catch any water that seeps through the foundation during periods of extreme saturation. The gutter system then drains into a sump pump.

    Originally our home did not have a sump pump, just a floor drain like you described. This drove up the price quite a bit as they had to do a lot more workto cut a new hole for the pump to sit in. We got 3/4 of our 900 square foot basement completed for just under $4,200. Then applied for the City of Des Moines' rebate and got $1,000 back. It was the best money I have ever spent, I no longer worry about water in our basement every time we get a storm like this last week.



  13. #13
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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    What sucks about my house is I just put a sump in this spring, it's definitely helped but even these past 2 nights can't keep it from seeping in somewhere. I have the pit in the lowest part of the basement with a tile that goes up towards a higher spot and with the clay base soil in my neighborhood its almost as if the sump is fighting a losing battle. It's keeping up but would probably need an extensive tiling system under my floor for it to keep it 100% dry I think. There is a foundation tile outside the house that we routed into the sump pit that used to just drain into the floor drain. Tracking tile around the wall wouldn't do much good for me as it's not coming through the wall. I have even painted everything with a water seal paint that is supposed to hold back up to 35 psi pressure but just goes to show you that even that isn't enough, just a pinhole leak somewhere is all water needs to seep in somewhere. Nothing coming through the walls thankfully as I just hung drywall in my big room and it's all staying nice a dry so far knock on wood!


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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    We moved into our home in 1988 during a summer of drought. When we had our first 2 and 1/2 inch rain our son stepped out of bed in his basement bedroom into water. We fought the water until 1993 when we had a five inch rain in five hours and had three inches of water on the floor on July 5th. We moved all the basement things to the garage and put a sump pit under the stairs going down to the basement. We wanted to use it as a leach type of sump, however, that did not work. We eventually hired a cement expert to come in and put sixty feet of tile throughout our basement floor tied to the new sump pit. We already had one sump that ran along the basement walls. Long story short it worked well for us until this summer when the city water sewer backed up on us after the second six inch rain in three days. We are now back to normal, however, things happen that one never thinks about. I would recommend the Little Giant pump. It has been a good one for us.



  15. #15
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    Re: Sump (Sub) Pumps or Tiling? That is the question

    This is my area of expertise....

    My house sounds a lot like yours...when we first moved in, built in the late 50's an addition put on in the 80's and my house had the system installed that Khess83 speak of...i can tell you without fault that system is not a solution long term and i'll explain why. Its nickname is the beaver system because its a matter of installation usually depends on the water getting to the tile. That is where the typical mistake is.

    Typically in our state, the backfill of choice in older homes was clay - why - its cheaper then sand or rock. The problem with clay is it does not allow the area to release the water, clay acts as a sponge. Instead, it sits on the outside of your foundation and will work its way through cracks in block or walls over time. Once this release point is developed, it becomes in essence an underground stream that has a release point - your basement. The real problem is the water cannot get to the perimeter drain or the perimeter drain may have filled with debris or even collapsed because a lot of the older perimeter drains are clay and it can become damaged over time.

    The only true solution is to do it the right way....and for your information, if you choose to go in other directions a few of the negative aspects that can affect your mancave or family room will be mold, dampness/musty smell and the like. If your slab is allowing moisture to penetrate upward through what is known as hydrostatic pressure, the problem can get worse during high water table years. Although we've had some serious rains this year, the water table has not been affected as badly as it was in 2008 because of the duration of the rains and what occurred north of us which increases our water levels here and the higher and longer you have water here, the higher the water table adjusts because the ground is saturated and has nowhere to go. Additionally, if the water is allowed to penetrate either upward or in through a wall regardless of quantity, you will develop mold - no two ways about it. A standard stud installed on a damp floor will begin to generate mold within the first three years - how do i know, i've seen it in my own basement!!!!

    So, the only way to truly reduce/eliminate the problem is exactly what i've done over the past 4 years. Determine which walls need to be rectified - typically its one or two that get the ground water. these are the two sides you need to rectify. I used a company in Waterloo to install whats known as RubRWall - in essence they dug up the wall to foundation, sprayed on this elastormeric waterproofing membrane on the OUTSIDE of the house. This is the key, as the water pressure hits the membrane, its on the outside and tries to push the membrane into the wall, which it cannot. For interior applied membranes or the like, there is no such resistance. Then they installed a new 4" perimeter drain and backfilled with 1" clean rock upto about 2' below grade and then cover with black dirt. I did the second wall on my own, it cost me around 1500 dollars all said and done for my side. The best part about this was it afforded me the opportunity to install an egress window into a downstairs bedroom making it a legal bedroom. The other side done by the contractor was nearly 5,000 dollars. But, since we've installed this, i have yet to see one drop of water come through a wall or the floor...it will protect your house for your lifetime. Now a word to the wise....

    If you get a lot of water, i would highly highly recommend putting in a second sump pit with a bigger pump and cut in a crossover from your primary pit. My basement did flood twice since my work has done, both times it was because so much water came into my sump pits that my primary pump could not keep up.

    Two other things - Your insurance agency probably offers flood/sump backup insurance and its cheap. They dont advertise it, but, they offer it with i think a maximum of 25000 dollars coverage - i have it and ive used it....trust me it was well worth it. Lastly, there is a company out there called Protected Home which offers an alarm system. You have to run a phone line to it, and it has a water sensor to it. What will happen is you install the water sensor just above the floor in your sump area. Should water overflow your sump for whatever reason and hit the sensor it will call you on whatever phone number youve installed up to three numbers. Its already saved me and others i work with because it also has battery backup in the alarm so should you lose power, and thus your sumps are shut off, it will call you to alert you to the power lose....

    http://www.protectedhome.com/homesitter-p-118-l-en.html

    Thats it, good luck!!!!


    Last edited by KMAC_ATTACK; 08-10-2010 at 09:55 AM.

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