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  1. #1
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    Cycling, fire the USA

    I don't know the United States Attorney for the Central District of California - he/she is investigating allegations of doping against Lance Armstrong. What federal law could possibly be involved in the use of performance enhancing drugs in Europe? Does anyone have a connection with Holder? Use his resources better.

    VeloNews.com - Newspaper: LeMond subpoenaed in Armstrong inquiry


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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    DENVER (AP) -- Three-time Tour de France winner Greg LeMond says he believes evidence against Lance Armstrong in a federal probe will be "overwhelming."
    In an interview with The Denver Post, LeMond said he was happy when he received the subpoena to make a July 30 appearance in federal court in Los Angeles to testify in an investigation of possible fraud and doping charges against Armstrong and his associates.
    "The evidence will come from the investigation," LeMond told the newspaper, "and I believe it will be overwhelming."
    LeMond also said he believes Floyd Landis was telling the truth in his descriptions of what he claimed was Armstrong's systemic doping program.
    Armstrong has denied allegations of doping. On Monday, his attorney sent a letter to the federal prosecutor looking into the case complaining about leaks to the media.
    "This appears to be a full-blown and largely unmonitored exploration of Floyd Landis' patently unreliable and routinely changing accusations of possible improper conduct in the professional cycling industry at large," wrote Armstrong's attorney, Tim Herman. A copy of the letter was obtained by The Associated Press.
    LeMond, meanwhile, could not discuss what he knows or what he'll testify about at the end of the month, but he said he was looking forward to being part of the investigation.
    "I'm hoping it gets as far as it can," LeMond told The Denver Post.
    LeMond's belief in Landis' allegations is quite a turnaround from three years ago, when LeMond testified in Landis' doping case. On a remarkable day in that hearing, LeMond told how Landis' manager threatened to reveal then-secret stories of LeMond being sexually abused as a child if he came to the hearing.
    "I think there's another side of Floyd that the public hasn't seen," LeMond said that day.
    But now, he's a believer in Landis, who recently came clean about his own doping while attacking Armstrong, who has consistently questioned Landis' credibility.
    "I think he's telling the truth," LeMond told the newspaper. "I think the level of detail, the descriptions, I think it rings true."



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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by BenEClone View Post
    I don't know the United States Attorney for the Central District of California - he/she is investigating allegations of doping against Lance Armstrong. What federal law could possibly be involved in the use of performance enhancing drugs in Europe? Does anyone have a connection with Holder? Use his resources better.

    VeloNews.com - Newspaper: LeMond subpoenaed in Armstrong inquiry

    Tailwind Sports, the corporation that owned the team that raced under USPS, Discovery, sponsorship is based in San Fransisco, which I assume is in the the Central District of California.

    Personal opinion - Pharmstrong is in a world of hurt over this.


    Last edited by becrisgreg; 07-20-2010 at 05:03 PM.

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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Armstrong used...LeMond probably did too.


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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    I really don't get the overwhelming desire of people to get Lance Armstrong. Was he cheating? Probably, since virtually everyone that was worth a darn in the past 12 years has been tested positive. They tested him several times, and the French and the cycling association hate him for the way he took over the tour de France, so there is no way they were looking the other way, or cutting him any slack.

    At this point all the evidence in the case is going to be circumstantial anyway. It will all be, he said, you said, I saw this on this date, etc.

    And what is to be gained by all this? More money, time and effort on something that isn't going to do anyone any good, while the country continues to go down the drain with real problems.



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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Armstrong is the one athlete that I always suspected of using steroids. Perfectly healthy baseball players go from above-average to breaking records and they are immediately (and rightly so) suspected of doping, yet Lance Armstrong wins two Tour De France races, gets diagnosed with testicular cancer, has surgery and undergoes chemo-therapy and then comes back and wins 5 more and nobody suspects him of any wrong-doing? Doesn't make sense to me.

    However, I should add that I wouldn't hold it against Armstrong if he used steroids to recover from his chemotherapy so he could continue his training.



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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by 3GenClone View Post
    Armstrong is the one athlete that I always suspected of using steroids. Perfectly healthy baseball players go from above-average to breaking records and they are immediately (and rightly so) suspected of doping, yet Lance Armstrong wins two Tour De France races, gets diagnosed with testicular cancer, has surgery and undergoes chemo-therapy and then comes back and wins 5 more and nobody suspects him of any wrong-doing? Doesn't make sense to me.

    However, I should add that I wouldn't hold it against Armstrong if he used steroids to recover from his chemotherapy so he could continue his training.

    Your time line is a little off. He was a good to above average classics/one day rider prior to the cancer diagnosis. He never showed any ability to be a serious threat in one of the grand tours. All of his tdf success came after winning his battle with cancer.

    Lance's battle with cancer is courageous, and his accomplishments on the bike are nothing short of amazing. To think he did it clean, when EVERYONE else doped is naive. All of the talk of most-tested, no negatives, need to do a little research. He has tested positive, but he conveniently produced a waiver after the fact for some saddle sores.



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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by 3GenClone View Post
    Armstrong is the one athlete that I always suspected of using steroids. Perfectly healthy baseball players go from above-average to breaking records and they are immediately (and rightly so) suspected of doping, yet Lance Armstrong wins two Tour De France races, gets diagnosed with testicular cancer, has surgery and undergoes chemo-therapy and then comes back and wins 5 more and nobody suspects him of any wrong-doing? Doesn't make sense to me.

    However, I should add that I wouldn't hold it against Armstrong if he used steroids to recover from his chemotherapy so he could continue his training.
    Is Lance Armstrong using? Quite possibly, even likely. That being said, he is also the most tested person on the planet and has yet to test positive. That may mean nothing - he could be on designer steroids for which tests currently don't detect, or his masking agents or methods of masking may be better than everyone else. That being said, in this society you are innocent until proven guilty. So far no one has even come close to proving Armstrong's guilt, and until he is proven guilty he will get the benefit of the doubt from me.


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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by everyyard View Post
    Armstrong used...LeMond probably did too.
    LeMond has never grown up from the petulant child he was when he won the tour. Over the years there is no one he has hesitated to bad mouth to keep himself in the limelight. Note that he claims to have first hand knowledge of anything US cycling related currently in the news and immediately goes to the press with it. If he knew Lance was doping during his tours, where was LeMond 5-10 years ago?

    I don't know if Lance doped. If he did, he has a regimen that is lightyears ahead of the entire rest of the pro peloton because if true he did it for years and was easily the most tested human on the planet, year 'round. They still failed to catch him red handed.

    If Lance doped, I will believe it when I see real evidence. I have long ago lost all respect for Greg LeMond and will take whatever he says as simply the carping of an attention whore.

    Just my $.02.


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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by VeloClone View Post
    LeMond has never grown up from the petulant child he was when he won the tour. Over the years there is no one he has hesitated to bad mouth to keep himself in the limelight. Note that he claims to have first hand knowledge of anything US cycling related currently in the news and immediately goes to the press with it. If he knew Lance was doping during his tours, where was LeMond 5-10 years ago?

    I don't know if Lance doped. If he did, he has a regimen that is lightyears ahead of the entire rest of the pro peloton because if true he did it for years and was easily the most tested human on the planet, year 'round. They still failed to catch him red handed.

    If Lance doped, I will believe it when I see real evidence. I have long ago lost all respect for Greg LeMond and will take whatever he says as simply the carping of an attention whore.

    Just my $.02.
    Sums it up pretty well for me.

    The one thing I'll add is that the only reason I even care is the fact that if he is proven to have cheated, it will have a devestating effect on his Livestrong foundation. What he has supposedly done after cancer has been inspirational. And if it is shown he did it by cheating, obviously his rep is gone and organizations that are benifactors of the Foundation won't touch him, and likely it, with a 10' pole. And that would be truely sad.



  11. #11
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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by VeloClone View Post
    LeMond has never grown up from the petulant child he was when he won the tour. Over the years there is no one he has hesitated to bad mouth to keep himself in the limelight. Note that he claims to have first hand knowledge of anything US cycling related currently in the news and immediately goes to the press with it. If he knew Lance was doping during his tours, where was LeMond 5-10 years ago?

    I don't know if Lance doped. If he did, he has a regimen that is lightyears ahead of the entire rest of the pro peleton because if true he did it for years and was easily the most tested human on the planet, year 'round. They still failed to catch him red handed.

    If Lance doped, I will believe it when I see real evidence. I have long ago lost all respect for Greg LeMond and will take whatever he says as simply the carping of an attention whore.

    Just my $.02.
    There is no doubt that LeMond is the jealous type, but if he is an attention whore, then what is Pharmstrong?

    Maybe it's the Nike similarity, but I think Tiger Woods and Lance are identical. Both are severely flawed characters with massive egos that happen to be great at their sport. They transcend their sport and have gone beyond athlete - They are BRANDS.

    Lance and his marketers have done all they can to keep his image clean. How often have you heard the mantra "most tested athlete"? How often have you heard about the failed test, but later producing an exemption for "saddle sores". Or what about the retest of the samples frozen from the 1999 tour? In 99 they didn't have a reliable test for EPO and they used them later for development of an accurate test. Samples attributed to Lance tested positive for EPO. Or the failed protocol allowing him to 'shower' unattended after the tester showed up.

    There is much $$$$$$ invested into the Brand of Armstrong, and everything will be done to squash the the allegations. Just like everyone associated with the Brand of Tiger did all they could to keep his whoring under raps. In the end the truth comes out.

    While I am convinced the Lance doped, I don't think it takes anything away from his tremendous accomplishments at the tdf. If he raced clean, then he was the only rider in the pro peleton to do so.


    Last edited by becrisgreg; 07-21-2010 at 09:44 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by VeloClone View Post
    LeMond has never grown up from the petulant child he was when he won the tour. Over the years there is no one he has hesitated to bad mouth to keep himself in the limelight. Note that he claims to have first hand knowledge of anything US cycling related currently in the news and immediately goes to the press with it. If he knew Lance was doping during his tours, where was LeMond 5-10 years ago?

    I don't know if Lance doped. If he did, he has a regimen that is lightyears ahead of the entire rest of the pro peloton because if true he did it for years and was easily the most tested human on the planet, year 'round. They still failed to catch him red handed.

    If Lance doped, I will believe it when I see real evidence. I have long ago lost all respect for Greg LeMond and will take whatever he says as simply the carping of an attention whore.

    Just my $.02.
    The problem for Lemond is that Lance is giving up riding. He is retiring. This is Lemond's last chance to get his name out there because 98% of Americans probably don't know who the hell he is. Greg Lemond is doing this out of 100% pure jealousy. Lance Armstrong will forever be known as the greatest american cyclist and probably the best the world has or ever will see. If Greg can help destroy his legacy then somehow in his mind it makes him the best.

    Greg Lemond = Bob Feller

    Feller is another of this type that is so jealous of the major popularity of baseball today that he has to come out and slander every good player in the game just to try and make sure he keeps his name in the news as a hall of famer. Hey Bob.... go take a nap you old fart and take Greg Lemond with you.



  13. #13
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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by becrisgreg View Post
    Lance and his marketers have done all they can to keep his image clean. How often have you heard the mantra "most tested athlete"? How often have you heard about the failed test, but later producing an exemption for "saddle sores". Or what about the retest of the samples frozen from the 1999 tour? In 99 they didn't have a reliable test for EPO and they used them later for development of an accurate test. Samples attributed to Lance tested positive for EPO. Or the failed protocol allowing him to 'shower' unattended after the tester showed up.
    Saddle sores: Lance Armstrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A 1999 urine sample showed traces of corticosteroid in an amount that was not in the positive range. A medical certificate showed he used an approved cream for saddle sores which contained the substance.[58]
    The test wasn't even positive, and the wording suggests that the cream was approved (as opposed to having a doctor's note saying he got shot-up with roids as part of some treatment).

    From the summary for source [58]:
    Even that sample, however, was below the levels that would have triggered a positive result at the time.
    Urine samples: Lance Armstrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Vrijman's report cleared Armstrong because of improper handling and testing.[90][91] The report said tests on urine samples were conducted improperly and fell so short of scientific standards that it was "completely irresponsible" to suggest they "constitute evidence of anything."[92]
    Shower: Lance Armstrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In late April [2009], the AFLD cleared Armstrong of any wrongdoing.
    I think I've also seen someplace that the credentials presented by the tester were questionable when the tester first arrived, thus Lance's refusal to immediately test. If I had that many people trying to catch me cheating (regardless of if I actually was cheating or not) I wouldn't take a test from anyone unless they had the correct credentials, either.


    Last edited by iahawkhunter; 07-21-2010 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Fixed typo

  14. #14
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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by VeloClone View Post
    LeMond has never grown up from the petulant child he was when he won the tour. Over the years there is no one he has hesitated to bad mouth to keep himself in the limelight. Note that he claims to have first hand knowledge of anything US cycling related currently in the news and immediately goes to the press with it. If he knew Lance was doping during his tours, where was LeMond 5-10 years ago?

    I don't know if Lance doped. If he did, he has a regimen that is lightyears ahead of the entire rest of the pro peloton because if true he did it for years and was easily the most tested human on the planet, year 'round. They still failed to catch him red handed.

    If Lance doped, I will believe it when I see real evidence. I have long ago lost all respect for Greg LeMond and will take whatever he says as simply the carping of an attention whore.

    Just my $.02.
    This and thank you for some sanity.

    We are a sad lot here. If someone wins, they MUST be cheating. Everyone else was......

    Pathetic.

    And to the guy who said Lance won 2 TDFs, then got cancer only to come back and win 5 more. come on. Folks, do some research. Find out what happened to his body post-cancer. Find out what happened to his mental approach post-cancer. Find out what other riders say about his training regimen.

    And Lemond wants him found guilty so he can be the #1 rider (historically) in America again. And they hate each other.


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    Re: Cycling, fire the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by becrisgreg View Post
    If he raced clean, then he was the only rider in the pro peleton to do so.
    I have to disagree with you there. The problems in cycling have been more prominent because cycling has been the world sport leader in testing and cleaning up the problem of doping in sport. There have been and are plenty of cyclists in the pro tour who have refused to use as they have morals and/or respect their bodies too much for that. Just because a sport does whatever it takes to clean up a problem does not necessarily mean that the problem is worse than in other sports that hide their heads in the sand about the problem, do inadequate testing and hide results of first offenses from the public.

    Cycling's governing body learned a lot from the Festina affair and while they have had missteps have done a lot for a sport that was on it's PR deathbed.


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