Iraq
Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: Iraq

  1. #1
    Legend
    Points: 174,241, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    alaskaguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    10,204
    Points
    174,241
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6
    Given: 1

    Iraq

    What is the situation in Iraq? The answer seems to depend on one's political persuasion and who you ask. I have a friend that works for the State Department. She was posted in Baghdad for six months and in Fallejah for six monts. She has given me some insight beyond what is on television and published in the newspapers. The bottom line seems that the situation is much worse than what is being shown on television. People like John McCain would say it is relatively safe to head down to the market in Baghdad. Of course he had a couple hundred troops protecting him, flak jacket and helmet, and attack helicopters over head. Another Michigan politician said that military folks he has talked to compared Iraq to Detroit. It is actually true that in some parts of Iraq that it is relatively crime free, assuming that you think Detroit is crime free. On the other hand a better comparison: Iraq did have a population of 20 million (4 million are now displaced, the most since World War II) compared to 300 million in the US. So if we mutiply the Iraq incidences of violence by 15 and make an analogy it would be like 1000 people every day beheaded or blown up in massive explosions (or maybe 30 Virginia Tech incidents daily). In addition if we carried the analogy a bit further government buildings would regularly be shelled by mortars and our embassies and government offices would be attacked on a daily basis. This is a situation that we would never allow within this hemisphere. The politicians that are putting a positive spin on what is happening are doing a real disservice.



  2. #2
    All-Star
    Points: 17,318, Level: 40
    Level completed: 9%, Points required for next Level: 732
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    frontrangeclone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    5,521 ft above sea level
    Posts
    1,270
    Points
    17,318
    Level
    40
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Re: Iraq

    ohhh man... this is the mother of all cans of worms for this board, and will probably dwarf global warming, gas prices, GOP debate etc....

    Here's my take on it. I'm pretty middle of the road politically. Liberal on some issues, moderately conservative on others. I didn't support the war to begin with, but that is WAAY in the past and the focus should now be on how to make this work, not why we are there in the first place. We are learning the hard way that you can't just go into a country and change their viewpoints and paradigms, or make them think like we do and have their society function just like the US or UK. The US is dealing with centuries-old rivalries amongst factions that pretty much hate each other like no one here can imagine. Conservatives here blame the media for not talking about all the good things going on in Iraq, like building hospitals, repairing things that were blown up in the war to begin with etc.. etc.., and that this negative reporting is swaying public opinion. I have a friend who is about as Karl Rove-Right Wing as you can get, and his son-in-law, an Army Ranger, tells him how great things are and how the natives loved the Rangers, but he was stationed in the western provinces, and, that was about 2 yrs ago. If there is so much good that the media isn't reporting, then why are we still there? Why aren't the thousands of Iraqi troops Don Rumsfeld said were available now replacing our units? The occupation of Iraq has caused great strain on our military and even with the effectiveness of the Nat'l Guard here at home (see: Katrina, Greenburg, KS). Many troops are on 3rd or 4th tours of Iraq. This stress on the military is affecting our ability to deal with other potential problems (Iran), but yet this administration doesn't think a draft is needed. There was a Chris Matthews show live at ISU as many of you know with Sen. McCain. When asked how many ISU students supported the war, most cheered loudly. Then, when asked how many would willingly particpate or go fight there, CY Stephens was pretty darn quiet. That kinda sums up the mentality of many Americans. We can rah-rah for the war and throw ribbons on our SUVs, but if a draft occurred and real sacrifice was needed, people may start making some noise against this. Most Americans just don't care and are more interested in Desperate Housewives and American Idol instead of Frontline or Meet the Press.
    Well, a large part of the answer is, as mentioned in another thread on gas prices, O-I-L. The whole region is a tinder-box of instability, and further conflict amongst sunni/shi'ite w/o the US presence could really mess the US economy up in a hurry. From what I've heard from many sources, the US is constructing some pretty permanent military facilities. So whatever debate we hear in Congress will not matter one bit, I don't think there will be a pullout or re-deployment of US forces until after the next election. An article in Time Magazine recently mentioned that there is now twice as much oil underlying Iraq as previously thought. WMDs, global war on terror, democracy in the middle east, WHATEVER. It's mostly about the petro.
    And please, for those of you who think these views are too far left and don't support the current strategy, and that I (and all liberals) hate the troops, spare me. I have two brothers who are naval officers and I was in Marine Corps boot camp, (just wasn't allowed to complete my training due to health issues). Just because someone uses their right to freedom of speech to question current US policy doesn't mean they hate the United States or our service personnel.


    Last edited by frontrangeclone; 05-18-2007 at 04:03 AM.
    I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

    Thomas Jefferson, 1802

  3. #3
    Speechless
    Points: 735,010, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 33.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Cyclonepride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    A pineapple under the sea
    Posts
    49,083
    Points
    735,010
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,189
    Given: 1,041

    Re: Iraq

    My cousin is a Marine, and served in Fallejah, and three friends of mine served in Iraq with the National Guard. Every one of them is upset with the way the media portrays the situation. My cousin said that reporters ask leading and carefully worded questions to get them to say something that would be construed as low morale. They had a clear sense of purpose, and they knew that they were making a difference. A difference that isn't highlighted in the media.

    It's obviously a very bad situation over there, but we need to show the intestinal fortitude to see it through. Mistakes have been made, but no plan survives contact with the enemy. Just because it is hard, does not mean that it isn't worthwhile.

    Part of our problem is that our enemies, and potential allies, do not believe that the people of the United States have the will to do what is necessary to win. Between Vietnam, Somalia, the bombing of the USS Cole, the lack of support for the insurrection that followed the Gulf War, the impression has been created that we will cut and run when things get tough, that we will not take the steps needed to win. War is brutal, and we need to be willing to take the necessary steps to win, whether it is pretty or not. If the Iraqi people really believed that we were going to see it through, we would be getting a lot more support and help from them. But they don't, and they aren't going to put their butts on the line until they do.

    The mere fact that our troops are in Iraq puts a lot more pressure on Iran, and they are the true main target in this war. We currently have troops stationed on two of their borders, so in the event of a war with them, they have defend from four sides....the east, the west, from an amphibious assault, and from the air. The more pressure that we can put on them, the better. That doesn't necessarily have to mean a shooting war.

    I'm not going to call anyone anti-American or against our troops, but you have to understand that the impression of a defeat is a defeat. The Tet offensive in Vietnam is a great example. On the battlefield, it was a horrible defeat for North Vietnam, one of the most lopsided losses in current memory. In the minds of people, it was a defeat for the United States.


    Last edited by Cyclonepride; 05-18-2007 at 07:23 AM.

  4. #4
    Starter Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Ankeny
    Posts
    927
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Re: Iraq

    We need to fight wars the way we did in WWII. Iraq needs to be fire bombed like Dresden was in the second war. If you don't have the stomach to fight to win, don't enter into a war. That's the mistake Bush made.



  5. #5
    Speechless
    Points: 495,902, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    jdoggivjc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Sterling Heights, MI
    Posts
    33,408
    Points
    495,902
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,345
    Given: 939

    Re: Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by joepublic View Post
    We need to fight wars the way we did in WWII. Iraq needs to be fire bombed like Dresden was in the second war. If you don't have the stomach to fight to win, don't enter into a war. That's the mistake Bush made.
    How about like the bombing runs in Japan? You know, the fire-bombing of Tokyo (which was just the control in the experiment), Hiroshima, Nagasaki...

    [/SARCASM]


    Chuck Lidell: I paint my toenails with pink and black polish. Problem is, I get more paint on my toes and on the carpet than on my nails. Any advice?
    Maria Sharapova: Don't you beat up other guys for a living? I don't know how to answer this.


  6. #6
    Speechless
    Points: 735,010, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 33.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    Cyclonepride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    A pineapple under the sea
    Posts
    49,083
    Points
    735,010
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2,189
    Given: 1,041

    Re: Iraq

    Quote Originally Posted by joepublic View Post
    We need to fight wars the way we did in WWII. Iraq needs to be fire bombed like Dresden was in the second war. If you don't have the stomach to fight to win, don't enter into a war. That's the mistake Bush made.
    That's a wee bit more extreme than I was thinking. We do have to fight to win, and that might mean being a little more heavy handed. There should be no safe places to hide. If Iranian agents are caught in Iraq, they should be shot. Bombing a city into rubble would not defeat the small forces that we are up against.

    To me, doing what it takes means allowing artillery and air support for our troops in the field. That will mean collateral damage and civilian casualties. Those things are a sad fact in war. But it will also save the lives of our troops.


    Last edited by Cyclonepride; 05-18-2007 at 08:23 AM.

  7. #7
    Pro
    Points: 56,538, Level: 73
    Level completed: 66%, Points required for next Level: 512
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    jtdoyle1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Ankeny, IA
    Posts
    2,232
    Points
    56,538
    Level
    73
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 158
    Given: 17

    Re: Iraq

    This war is different than those in the past like WWII. We are not fighting uniformed soldiers or a perticular government entity. We are fighting small groups of insurgents that are hidden among the civilians. I'm sure the soldiers don't know who is good or bad, so they don't know who to fight.

    The iraqi govt. has already been toppled yet the fighting continues. There is noone to surrender and sign a treaty with like in previous wars that is why there is no end to this in the near future.

    I doubt the people we are fighting would even care if we fire bombed cities in iraq because they are car-bombing the same cities.



  8. #8
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 49,462, Level: 68
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 288
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran25000 Experience Points
    SuperCy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Smallville/Metropolis
    Posts
    3,884
    Points
    49,462
    Level
    68
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6
    Given: 0

    Re: Iraq

    The thing is, I'm not convinced that Iraq is our biggest concern right now.
    How long until we have to put Iran in their place? If you think we're stretched out now, just think what it'll be like then.

    How many Iranian "advisors" have we caught coming across the border? I don't think it's a matter of if, but when we have make a run into Iran. The problem is that the rest of the world knows that it has to be done but they won't help. Let the U.S. do it. If and when we go into Iran it'll have to be soon. It'll be before the 2009 innauguration. My belief is that if it's certain that a Democrat is going to follow Bush then it's going to be done before he leaves office. If it's not, then it won't be done. If we decided to not strike them then we need to step up the sanctions.

    Part of the problem to is that we can't trust our so called "allies." After the sanctions imposed on Iraq after the Gulf War in 1991 France and Germany continued to sell military equiptment to the Iraquis. They were selling them upgrades to their armor and other systems. I don't believe that they were selling them weapons, but they were selling them things that would make their existing weapons deadlier.

    The US military uncovered Migs that the Russians had sold them after 1991. They were actually buried in the sand so that they wouldn't be discovered.

    Not only that then we still need to keep our eye on China. Who knows what that crazy bastard in North Korea's been up too lately.

    The whole issue is huge and innertwined. We're going to be involved somewhere for a long time to come. It's sad, but that's the world we live in.



    What ever happened to truth, justice and the American Way?

  9. #9
    Legend
    Points: 174,241, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    alaskaguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    10,204
    Points
    174,241
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 6
    Given: 1

    Re: Iraq

    The Iraq embassy is scheduled to open in September. It is probably the only project that the Bush Administration has taken on in Iraq that is on time and within budget. The $592 million embassy occupies a chunk of prime real estate two-thirds the size of Washington's National Mall, with desk space for about 1,000 people behind high, blast-resistant walls. What kind of embassy is it when everybody lives inside and it's blast-proof, and people are running around with helmets and crouching behind sandbags?



  10. #10
    Legend
    Points: 111,164, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 8.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    ISUKyro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    10,117
    Points
    111,164
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 273
    Given: 810

    Re: Iraq

    Not bashing any administration - I just wish their was a defintion for "job done'" or "victory" because without either of those there can be no end :(



  11. #11
    Speechless
    Points: 408,316, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 25.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialOverdriveVeteran50000 Experience Points
    Wesley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Omaha
    Posts
    61,142
    Points
    408,316
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 885
    Given: 624

    Re: Iraq

    Fighting wars is like playing a football game. It may go overtime, but there is always a winner.


    Let my Fred's Posse Ride: Georges, Naz, Hogue, Bryce, Nader, Monte, Matt, and McKay.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • TV: Cyclones.tv
  • HOOPS: Iowa State vs. Mississippi Valley State
  • December 31, 2014
  • 06:00 PM