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  1. #1
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    Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Now that Nebraska is on its way out of the Big 12, the viability of such a small wrestling conference comes into question. Should the Big XII be looking to let other universities become affiliated with the Big 12 for wrestling purposes? If so, who would be good candidates? UNI perhaps?



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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by colbycheese View Post
    Now that Nebraska is on its way out of the Big 12, the viability of such a small wrestling conference comes into question. Should the Big XII be looking to let other universities become affiliated with the Big 12 for wrestling purposes? If so, who would be good candidates? UNI perhaps?
    what about boise state does the MWC have wrestling?



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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Boise State's wrestling team competes in the Pac 10, I believe.



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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by colbycheese View Post
    Now that Nebraska is on its way out of the Big 12, the viability of such a small wrestling conference comes into question. Should the Big XII be looking to let other universities become affiliated with the Big 12 for wrestling purposes? If so, who would be good candidates? UNI perhaps?
    I would think it is something that should be investigated. UNI, NDSU, and SDSU come to mind. There are a number of smaller schools that are members of the Pac-10 for wrestling. Air Force is also currently an independent, and might be one for consideration.


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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Personally, I would like to pressure the Kansas schools to re-instate the sport first. Also, wrestling has been starting to gain a lot of traction down in Texas the past few years, so what is their take on getting into the ring?


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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    There needs to be at least 6 teams wrestling.

    5 was bad

    4 is downright embarassing.

    Go find 2 more somewhere as wrestling only schools.



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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone62 View Post
    Personally, I would like to pressure the Kansas schools to re-instate the sport first. Also, wrestling has been starting to gain a lot of traction down in Texas the past few years, so what is their take on getting into the ring?
    I don't foresee KU ever having wrestling again but it would be a perfect fit at KSU. Quite a bit of talent in Kansas.



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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by RustyClone View Post
    I don't foresee KU ever having wrestling again but it would be a perfect fit at KSU. Quite a bit of talent in Kansas.
    I don't see KU joining in again unless KSU gets a lot of talent from the state. However, you get KSU on board, and possibly Texas (hell, they have the money to throw at it and get it started within a year), I can see KU looking into a re-start.


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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    What reason does KU have to start up wrestling? They have virtually no shot of ever winning anything. The sport would lose money, and lose even more money if they tried to actually be competitive. And most importantly, wrestling uses 10 scholarships, which means they would have to add 10 scholarships on the women's side, draining even more precious revenue.

    Title IX has kind of forced a lot of tough decisions to be made in athletic departments. If I was AD, I would pretty much whittle my men's side down to football (85 scholarships), basketball (13 scholarships) and baseball (~12 scholarships), unless I had a big tradition in something else, such as ISU with wrestling. Then you just have to add women's sports to balance those men's scholarships, so you get basketball, softball, soccer, volleyball, etc., which all lose money for the athletic department. The more revenue losers you put on the men's side, the more you have to put on the women's side. It's the same reason why ISU isn't bringing back baseball.

    It's been made quite clear over the past two weeks that to get a better place at the table of college athletics, one thing matters, and that is football. The more resources a school can devote to its football team, the better off that whole department is going to be down the line.



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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by kucyclone View Post
    What reason does KU have to start up wrestling? They have virtually no shot of ever winning anything. The sport would lose money, and lose even more money if they tried to actually be competitive. And most importantly, wrestling uses 10 scholarships, which means they would have to add 10 scholarships on the women's side, draining even more precious revenue.

    Title IX has kind of forced a lot of tough decisions to be made in athletic departments. If I was AD, I would pretty much whittle my men's side down to football (85 scholarships), basketball (13 scholarships) and baseball (~12 scholarships), unless I had a big tradition in something else, such as ISU with wrestling. Then you just have to add women's sports to balance those men's scholarships, so you get basketball, softball, soccer, volleyball, etc., which all lose money for the athletic department. The more revenue losers you put on the men's side, the more you have to put on the women's side. It's the same reason why ISU isn't bringing back baseball.

    It's been made quite clear over the past two weeks that to get a better place at the table of college athletics, one thing matters, and that is football. The more resources a school can devote to its football team, the better off that whole department is going to be down the line.
    They wouldn't necessarilly have to add 10 scholies, but they would have to spend more on women's sports. Title IX, even though it has a participation clause, is not interpreted that way in the courts. The only interpretation that has been used is equal revenue. That means you need to spend as much on women's athletics as men's. That is why at ISU, you will find many more women on scholarship than men. For crying out loud, they sent a mass e-mail out to the students that women interested could try out for a new rowing team and get the opportunity to win full tuition scholarships when I was there. Bet that team was competitive.



  11. #11
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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by brett108 View Post
    Title IX, even though it has a participation clause, is not interpreted that way in the courts. The only interpretation that has been used is equal revenue. That means you need to spend as much on women's athletics as men's. That is why at ISU, you will find many more women on scholarship than men.
    Not true.

    Title IX - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In 1979, the U.S. Department of Health, Education, and Welfare under Jimmy Carter's administration issued a policy interpretation for Title IX, including what has become known as the "three-prong test" of an institution's compliance.[14][15]

    1. Prong one - Providing athletic participation opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the student enrollment, OR
    2. Prong two - Demonstrate a continual expansion of athletic opportunities for the underrepresented sex, OR
    3. Prong three - Full and effective accommodation of the interest and ability of underrepresented sex.

    A recipient of federal funds can demonstrate compliance with Title IX by meeting any one of the three prongs.[16]
    Prong 1 basically means scholarship opportunities are proportional to the overall gender split.

    Also:

    Unequal aggregate expenditures for members of each sex or unequal expenditures for male and female teams if a recipient operates or sponsors separate teams will not constitute noncompliance with this section, but the Assistant Secretary [of Education for Civil Rights] may consider the failure to provide necessary funds for teams for one sex in assessing equality of opportunity for members of each sex.

    I'll add up the number of scholarships available for men and women at ISU shortly...


    Last edited by mred; 06-17-2010 at 11:12 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone62 View Post
    ...so what is their take on getting into the ring?
    We are talking amatuer wrestling here, right?


    Quote Originally Posted by 2020cy View Post
    I agree with Tube1.
    Sweeeeeeet...

  13. #13
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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    ISU sports and scholarships available:

    Men
    Basketball 13
    CC/T&F 12.6
    Football 85
    Golf 4.5
    Wrestling 9.9

    Total 125

    Women
    Basketball 15
    CC/T&F 18
    Golf 6
    Gymnastics 12
    Soccer 14
    Softball 12
    Swimming 14
    Tennis 8
    Volleyball 12

    Total 111

    Of the 236 total available scholarships, 47.2% are for women.

    According to this, ISU is usually around 43.5% women. By my math, ISU could add as many as 15-20 men's scholarships and still be in Title IX compliance.



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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    Boise State, Cal Poly, Cal St. Fullerton, and CaL St. Bakersfield all wrestle in the Pac-10 as one-sport associate members. I don't see why the Big 12 couldn't invite in a couple of schools for a similar agreement.

    The "Western Wrestling Conference" is a wrestling only conference that UNI is in and has for its members: UNI, Air Force, ND St, No. Colorado, SDSU, Utah Valley, and Wyoming. Invite a couple of those programs and make the Big 12 a real sized conference. Although I don't know how badly those schools would want to wrestle ISU, OSU, OU every year and to qualify for nationals. I think there are some independent schools out there too, but I can't seem to find a listing off hand.



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    Re: Big 12 Wrestling Expansion?

    This is going to be a tricky subject.

    There are rules in place (not sure if by NCAA or B12) that says you need at least 5 teams for a conference championship meet. With Nebraska leaving that only leaves the B12 with 4 teams which means no conference championship in the future.

    Add more teams you say? That's not so simple.... There is a B12 bylaw that says that a school cannot join the league for certain sports. Which means those that want Boise State/Air Force/etc. to join for wrestling only it will not happen. The only way this happens is if the powers that be change the standards for the B12.


    Last edited by cyinne; 06-17-2010 at 11:47 AM.

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