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    Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    To start the discussion of, do you believe in global warming is caused by man and his carbon dioxide production or the sun irradiating at higher levels or some other cause? Please comment.

    To kick off the discussion, here is one solar radiation argument:


    Putting the "Green" in Greenland
    By Chris Mayer
    "I'm going to talk about global warming in a way you've never head of before - I'm going to talk about evidence." So began Dennis Avery at a recent investment conference. Avery is co-author, along with Fred Singer, of a fascinating new book titled Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years.
    The authors debunk the idea that the Earth is warming primarily because of manmade carbon dioxide emissions - which the authors say represent only 3.5% of all carbon dioxide released into the air. Instead, they present compelling evidence, based on the work of thousands of qualified research scientists, of a long-term cycle of global climate change. They write: "The public has remained virtually unaware that the 1,500-year cycle offers the only explanation for the modern warming that is supported by physical evidence."
    Consider the Vikings' dramatic experience with this cycle...
    Near the end of the 10th century, the Vikings sailed west from Iceland in their now-iconic longships. They soon bumped into a huge new uninhabited island. Its cool waters held plentiful codfish and seals. Green grass covered its shores. The Vikings named it Greenland.
    The Vikings soon settled there. They raised sheep and cattle. Grew vegetables. Traded sealskins and rope made from walrus hide to get timber and other things they needed. The colony thrived. By 1100, more than 3,000 people called Greenland home. They had 12 churches. Even had their own bishop.
    The Vikings, though they could not have known it, were beneficiaries of the Medieval Warming. For 400 years, the temperatures in Northern Europe were 2 degrees warmer than before. Unfortunately for the Vikings, the Little Ice Age soon followed this period of warming - and lasted for 500 years.
    As the Little Ice Age unfolded, ice formed a crust around Greenland's shores. Supply ships soon struggled to make their way to Greenland's coast. Winters grew longer. Summers grew shorter. Storms became more violent. The Vikings could no longer farm as they once did. In desperation, they ate their last milk cows. Inuit people came across the ice from the north. Struggles ensued over a smaller number of seals.
    In 1410, the last supply ship broke through the ice. Soon thereafter, the settlers perished. Denmark recolonized Greenland in 1721 - more than 300 years later - after the Little Ice Age loosened its grip on the island.
    The Viking experience shows how the temperature of the planet ebbed and flowed over the course of hundreds of years. In addition to the Vikings, we have evidence from other early civilizations. The Romans recorded a warming period between 200 B.C. and A.D. 600. They grew grapes in Great Britain and Northern Europe.
    Evidence mounts from many sources. Ice cores give us climate histories going back 900,000 years. Seabed sediments, stalagmites, tree rings, fossilized pollen - all point to a roughly 1,500-year cycle of warming and cooling stretching back nearly a million years.
    "The Earth continually warms and cools," the authors note.
    "The cycle is undeniable, ancient, often abrupt and global. It is unstoppable." What causes it? Small changes in the irradiance of the sun. Boiled down to its barest essentials, a weaker sun creates a cooler Earth. A more active and stronger sun warms the planet. In short, solar variations drive the Earth's surface temperatures.
    Scientists found a 95% correlation between sunspot numbers and global temperatures. That means that the two move in tandem nearly all of the time. This is a far better predictor than carbon dioxide emissions, which do not explain long periods in which carbon dioxide levels rose while the planet cooled, nor do they explain long stretches when the planet warmed as carbon dioxide levels fell.There are many more flaws in the popular greenhouse theory, detailed in the book. But the bottom line is that the theory does a poor job of explaining the temperature variations of the Earth's history.
    In any event, the Earth has been warming slowly since about 1850. It will have an impact on human civilization. That impact is not as frightening as global warming advocates such as Al Gore want you to believe. In fact, human history tells us that the warming periods were prosperous times.Warmer climates in Canada and Russia will aid food production. The higher levels of carbon dioxide will stimulate plant growth and increase crop and forest yields. Longer growing seasons, fewer frosts, more rainfall - all of this will be good for agriculture.
    There will be fewer storms in warm weather. A warmer planet means the temperature gap between the poles and the equator is smaller - lending less power to winds, waves and currents.
    The fiercest storms occurred during periods of cooling, when those temperature gaps were large. During the Little Ice Age, from 1701-1850, the Caribbean experienced three times as many hurricanes as from 1950 to today. This evidence comes from numerous sources, including the meticulous records of the British navy - because of Britain's large sugar plantations in the region, its navy was also active in the area. Colder climates actually kill far more people than warmer climes, the authors show.
    Yet, not all the effects of warming are good. For example, Avery said that as the tropical rain belts moved north, Canada and Siberia would get wetter, while the Southern U.S. would get drier. Some places would experience more flooding, others more drought.
    One final thought: The authors point out the real fear should be the next ice age, which is inevitable. Then, places including Ohio and Indiana (forget Canada) would be covered with ice sheets a mile thick. California and the Great Plains would suffer century-long droughts.
    The good news? As Avery and Singer note, "It may still be thousands of years away..."


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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Historical temperature graphs point directly to a natural cycle of some sort. I've heard theories ranging from the irregular orbit of the earth around the sun, to geothermal activity in the Earth's core. The theory that man is responsible has so many holes in it, that it is completely ridiculous and irresponsible to make such a huge deal out of it as they are now.

    The whole debate is completely politicized, and I really believe that the end goal of the environmentalists is the deindustrializing of the world. If you read enough of their rhetoric, you will find many of these people wishing hopefully for some kind of plague to sweep through the world, killing millions, so that "mother earth" can be rid of this parasite called man. If you question that, it won't take much searching to find quotes to that effect on the net.



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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Bryceman, please do not use scientific facts to make your point. You should be watching TV and listening to Al Gore to make your decisions.

    That being said, I think humans do contribute to global warming but I have absolutely no idea how much...and I doubt that anyone else does either. They can theorize however much they want, but they don't know anything for sure.



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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    UNITED STATES

    Climate Summary

    April 2007

    The average temperature in April 2007 was 51.7 F. This was -0.3 F cooler than the 1901-2000 (20th century) average, the 47th coolest April in 113 years. The temperature trend for the period of record (1895 to present) is 0.1 degrees Fahrenheit per decade.

    2.09 inches of precipitation fell in April. This was -0.34 inches less than the 1901-2000 average, the 30th driest such month on record. The precipitation trend for the period of record (1895 to present) is 0.01 inches per decade.


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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Whether you agree or disagree that man has an affect on temp, you can't ignore that fact that people do have an affect on this planet. Pollution levels are out of control. Toxic substances pollute our water supplies. Garbage litters our highways. Smog hovers over almost every large city on a daily basis. So even if you don't believe it affects the temperature of the earth, what is it hurting to want to clean up our atmosphere and waterways? What I don't get is how people who oppose the idea get so angry. Lets say that the scientists are wrong and globbal warming is total false and we are "tricked" into cleaning up our emissions and CO2 levels. What harm has it caused? Research money spent? Regulations and taxes? Energy prices increase? So what! The clean up effort needs to happen even with warming removed from the equation, in my opinion. The Globbal Warming argument just provides a nice reason for the change to start to happen now rather than later.

    Edit: Wow it didn't take long for this to get political. Why can't this topic be discuss without someone making it political?


    Last edited by CyinCo; 05-16-2007 at 11:34 AM.
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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Arctic islands invite tourists to see climate woes

    Wed May 16, 2007 11:03AM EDT

    By Alister Doyle, Environment Correspondent
    LONGYEARBYEN (Reuters) - A remote chain of Arctic islands is advertising itself as a showcase of bad things to come from global warming.
    Visitors to Svalbard can see reindeer, seals or polar bears in the Arctic, where U.N. scientists say warming is happening twice as fast as on the rest of the planet in what may be a portent of changes further south.
    Local authorities said such visits are less environmentally harmful than Russian-led tours on nuclear ice-breakers or sky-diving trips over the North Pole.

    "This is one of the few ecosystems we have in the world that is functioning, with the polar bear as the top predator," said Rune Bergstrom, environmental expert at the governor's office.
    "Svalbard is probably the best place to see change, and the easiest place to reach in the high Arctic," he said.
    Glaciers have been retreating in parts of the Norwegian-run archipelago, Europe's largest wilderness. Last summer, some previously unknown islands were found after a glacier shrank.
    U.S. senators Hillary Clinton and John McCain, among contenders to take over from President George W. Bush in 2009, visited in 2004. Since then Nordic prime ministers, tourists, climate students and Arctic researchers are coming too.
    Tourists, many on cruise ships, spent a total of 70,000 nights in the islands last year, up from almost zero 20 years ago. Bergstrom said tourists were rich, and so could be influential when they returned home.


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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Quote Originally Posted by CyinCo View Post
    Whether you agree or disagree that man has an affect on temp, you can't ignore that fact that people do have an affect on this planet. Pollution levels are out of control. Toxic substances pollute our water supplies. Garbage litters our highways. Smog hovers over almost every large city on a daily basis. So even if you don't believe it affects the temperature of the earth, what is it hurting to want to clean up our atmosphere and waterways? What I don't get is how people who oppose the idea get so angry. Lets say that the scientists are wrong and globbal warming is total false and we are "tricked" into cleaning up our emissions and CO2 levels. What harm has it caused? Research money spent? Regulations and taxes? Energy prices increase? So what! The clean up effort needs to happen even with warming removed from the equation, in my opinion. The Globbal Warming argument just provides a nice reason for the change to start to happen now rather than later.

    Edit: Wow it didn't take long for this to get political. Why can't this topic be discuss without someone making it political?
    So you are saying that we should spend trillions of dollars, just in case they are right? CO2 is not a noxious chemical by the way. I don't think our waterways are polluted with CO2! There are plenty of noxious chemicals that can and have been eliminated from our industries, and I am sure that focusing on this would be a much more worthwhile cause. Increased energy costs hit the very poorest people in the world the hardest. But we should hit them with the increased costs, just in case.



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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Try telling Dr. Heidi Cullen of the Weather Channel any of these theories. She's made a career off the lie and would scream bloody murder and have you locked away in the looney bin until you perished...

    Well, at the very least, if she had her way, you wouldn't have a career in meteorology, which she firmly believes that one is qualified for ONLY if they believe in the uh, ahem... "SCIENCE" of man-made global warming...


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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    From Dennis Miller,

    "There's a lot of differing data [about global warming], but as far as I can gather, over the last hundred years the temperature on this planet has gone up 1.8 degrees. Am I the only one who finds that amazingly stable? I could go back to my hotel room tonight and futz with the thermostat for three to four hours. I could not detect that difference."



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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Global warming is tree hugger logic at best, with all due respect of course.



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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    So you are saying that we should spend trillions of dollars, just in case they are right? CO2 is not a noxious chemical by the way. I don't think our waterways are polluted with CO2! There are plenty of noxious chemicals that can and have been eliminated from our industries, and I am sure that focusing on this would be a much more worthwhile cause. Increased energy costs hit the very poorest people in the world the hardest. But we should hit them with the increased costs, just in case.
    Exactly. Didn't we learn anything from Y2K??? This seems like its taking the same path. Let's spend crap loads of money and alter new products because the world MAY end.

    But hey, its just money.



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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem with the world coming to an end? I mean, my life is going pretty good right now, but since the universe is so much bigger than I and I have no real control over it...


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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Mars is also experiencing planetary warming and the retreat of its polar ice at this time. Is this because of our CO2 emissions?



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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Quote Originally Posted by SciClone View Post
    Mars is also experiencing planetary warming and the retreat of its polar ice at this time. Is this because of our CO2 emissions?
    Sorry, hate to burst your bubble about CO2 emmisions causing global warming on Mars, but George W. Bush is to blame for that...


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    Re: Global Warming - What Do You Believe - O. T.

    Global warming is BS even with the "scientific numbers" people put out there. What, they temp is about 1 degree higher on the average now or something? Historically the temp has varied in cycles. Where where the global warming folks when we had that cold spell in April? Global warming my a**, the past few winters have been plenty cold too so I don't buy it.

    Yeah we probably contribute in some way to it but I'm not worried about the polar caps melting and killing everything on the planet. Unless you are living like the Amish or in the wilderness we all contribute because without our conveinences today a lot of us wouldn't survive and I don't see us moving away from a lot of the things that contribute any time soon.



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