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    B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Not sure who Tiggerhawk is from HN, but he has been posting this in a couple threads and it is right on the money. Absolutely owns John Miller in his "dollars and sense" thread.

    Bottom line is the $$$ involved from a research/academics perspective absolutely dwarfs any revenue from an athletic perspective and will be THE primary indicator of who will be extended invites to the B10/11 if anyone.

    Posted by Tiggerhawk on HN:

    The fatal flaw in your extended summation of athletic budgets, television markets, etc, Mr Miller, is that the entire analysis seems to rest on assumptions that are lacking seriously in proportion.

    Start instead with the most basic, fundamental controlling facts and the most obvious (usually explicitly stated) purposes of the players involved.

    1. Most critical, the Big Ten is primarily a consortium of major research universities. It has made in clear repeatedly in the most explicit language that in any expansion the most important, essential criterion would be that a potential candidate for membership would be that it is a major researh university.

    2. Mizzou is NOT one. Neither is Nebraska. (Ironically, Iowa State IS). It could not be more of an obvious political fact of life that NEITHER Mizzou or Nebraska will have a political climate any time in the near future where n the state legislature would reverse years of neglect of education (particularly post-secondary ed) to appropriate the billions of dollars necessary to bring either school un to the level of research facilities, programs, capabilities required by the BT of any new member.

    3. The very reason why the Big Ten presidents will decide this summer to put possible expansion on their agenda definitely rules out Mizzou or Nebraska--or Syracuse, or Notre Dame, or Boston College, or just about any school not named Rutgers, Pitt or Texas. Necessarily, the BT presidents have remained discreetly silent on the subject of expansion...other than the announcement last Fall that the BT staff was going to gather further info and opinion on expansion, a statement that directly linked the prospect of the BT moving expansion ahead on the timetable because of the likelihood that the scope, scale & pace of federal funding of university-based research will likely accelerate post-passage of national health reform legislation.

    One exception to the silence of the BT presidents has been Iowa's own Sally Mason: several months ago she participated in a forum at Penn State as the lone BT president in which BT expansion was debated (the forum subsequently was aired several times on the Penn Status weekly campus programming on BTN). Mason had to be discreet in her remarks, which were mostly generalities--but she made the point that the reason why expansion might be on the agenda soon was the anticipated significant increase in federal funding, and the understandable priority of the BT to position itself as favorably as it could both as a whole and as individual institutions in the competition for the greater federal contracts, grants, etc.

    4. The huge sums of money you mention is TV & media contracts attendance, bowls, etc are significant, dwarf our imaginations...But they need to be viewed in accurate PERSPECTIVE.
    A. The athletic budget at NO Big Ten school is much more than five percent--1/20th--of the total budget. It is about ten percent--1/10th--of the research budgeting. At out own U of Iowa, this past fiscal year, THREE researchers at the U of Iowa Hospitals & Clinics together brought in more funding than the ENTIRE athletic dept budget.
    B. The essence, the far & away most significant amount you are referencing in regard to BT athletics, is the less than a quarter-billion dollars in television revenue shared by the Big Ten schools. That is a lot of moolah, no question about it. But again, PERSPECTIVE: that is about five percent--1/20th--of the research funds coming now to the BT & its member schools. It is about five percent--1/20th--of what the Big Ten hopes to receive as a lion's share of increased federal funding of university-based research.
    C. However fascinating internet folk and the media find those large $$$$$$ of TV money for football, bowls, conference & NCAA hoops games & tournaments, etc...it nonetheless ought to be evident to anyone who glances at the comparative numbers to understand why the Big Ten is more interested (as example) the potential funds that Pitt, with its strong medical facilities, research capabilities, patents & contracts can bring to the BT consortium than a possibly more lucrative TV contract resulting from adding Nebraska.

    It is the difference between millions of dollars, and billions of dollars. It is the difference between vast gains in the academic & research capabilities of the BT and its member schools--AND the greater prestige and access to further foundation, corporate & govt financial support that results--compared to some marginal improvement in its competitive situation relative to other athletic conferences.

    Not suggesting that a forum like this whose purpose is to enhance our discussions of Hawkeye athletics ought to cvoncern itself instead with academic & research aspects of the U of Iowa...just that we should conduct our debates with an awareness of what the real parameters of Hawkeye sports are. And that means IMO as the absolute minimum a proud awareness of just how unique and dominant the Big Ten is compared with other merely-athletic conferences.



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    This is why you have to sift through dozens of stupid threads of joe schmo expansion predictions ... to find something interesting and thought provoking ... thanks for sharing!


    I'm on twitter @mookjnsn ... me, not her.

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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Good post. But Tiggerhawk has been wrong before.

    I would add that if Nebraska is seriously a candidate for the Big Ten, one might imagine Warren Buffet making a substantial contribution to upgrade its research. Same with Missouri, I suppose (and probably Iowa State), that that would be part of any deal.



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Not to shift the discussion to another thread, but this is why I firmly believe if the BOR is for what is best for the State, and not just the Hawkeyes, they should put pressure on Mason to support ISU in attempting to join the Big 10. However, it is doubtful either University has enough weight for it to matter.

    As posted in another thread, this blogger thinks Chuck Grassley may be one of the few who understand what might keep Big 10 expansion in-line.

    "Not Without Iowa State”
    Iowa Senator Chuck Grassley is one of my all-time favorites. He is moderately conservative, fiscally responsible, independently thinking and entertainingly outspoken. He was the Senator who famously suggested that AIG executives should practice seppuku rather than accept taxpayer-funded bonuses. He is also the Senate Finance Committee member who, as chair when the Republicans had control, threatened to remove the tax exemptions of universities that harbor researchers without holding them accountable for conflicts-of-interest between research activities and consulting activities. He has criticized university endowments for hoarding capital in investments rather than spending it for the benefit of students and, of greatest concern, has threatened to tax university athletic departments for engaging in commercial interests inconsistent with their nonprofit missions. Senator Grassley understands the business of universities, and he’s not always been a fan.
    http://chronicle.com/article/Sen-Gra...peaks-on/1011/http://chronicle.com/article/Commerc...College/44238/
    Were the Big 10 to bypass Iowa State in favor of Texas and, heaven forbid, Nebraska, everyone outside the state of Iowa would understand and accept the rationale as just and reasonable. The Big 10 already has the Hawkeyes. The state of Iowa is a small TV market. The Cyclones have never been all that competitive and do not have a strong athletics brand. Adding Iowa State would dilute the Big 10’s per share payout.
    All of that would make sense to anyone other than a five-term Iowa Senator seeking a sixth in 2010 and facing strong competition in both the primary and, if fortunate to pass that test, the general election in November. This is the one guy who harbors the roadmap to the soft spots in the university’s financial underbelly. He has the knowledge at hand, the will to use it, and nothing to lose politically. Perhaps the Big 10 leaders see Iowa State as “Baylor 2010.” Perhaps an intimate knowledge of Senator Grassley has been a large reason why the Big 10 has been slow to act.
    The fact that universities are nonprofit organizations chartered to educate, expand knowledge and generally serve society is lost on many college football fans and most sportswriters. Don’t let Jerry Jones desensitize you to the differences between pro sports and college sports just because you paid $9 for a cold draft at the Big 12 championship game. If the universities make revenue maximization the end-game, they will soon find themselves paying corporate income taxes on those profits. Seriously, how many Longhorn fans thought that $5 million gift from DeLoss Dodds to university academics was a generous act? It’s called thinking ahead and seeing the big picture. If/when Senator Grassley starts poking around Belmont Hall, Dodds will show him a check stub.


    Last edited by swarthmoreCY; 05-17-2010 at 10:51 AM.

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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Thanks, isuno1fan. That's a good read.

    I know it's not premium content, but to be fair to HN, could you post a link? Just a suggestion.



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by isuno1fan View Post
    Not sure who Tiggerhawk is from HN, but he has been posting this in a couple threads and it is right on the money.

    3. The very reason why the Big Ten presidents will decide this summer to put possible expansion on their agenda definitely rules out Mizzou or Nebraska--or Syracuse, or Notre Dame, or Boston College, or just about any school not named Rutgers, Pitt or Texas.
    That is absurd.
    Also, if it was about research dollars, then Washington University in St. Louis would be at the top of the Big Ten's list. Their research $$$ dwarf schools like Indiana, Michigan State, Iowa, and Purdue. Indiana is not a strong research school at all.



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Its amazing to me the great lengths and time people will spend on such speculation.



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    That is absurd.
    Also, if it was about research dollars, then Washington University in St. Louis would be at the top of the Big Ten's list. Their research $$$ dwarf schools like Indiana, Michigan State, Iowa, and Purdue. Indiana is not a strong research school at all.
    I'm at Wash U now, not sure our football team could hang with the likes of Ohio State. But yes we bring in lots of research dollars.



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by Ficklone02 View Post
    Its amazing to me the great lengths and time people will spend on such speculation.
    Tiggerhawk has posted stuff like that before. He probably writes pretty fast (and obviously well), but he could have cut and pasted most of that.

    Notre Dame though is IMO a big exception to his thesis. It is an excellent educational institution and I believe a serious candidate for the Big Ten.



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by Ficklone02 View Post
    Its amazing to me the great lengths and time people will spend on such speculation.
    I have had that thought all along...



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by ICclone23 View Post
    I'm at Wash U now, not sure our football team could hang with the likes of Ohio State. But yes we bring in lots of research dollars.
    That's my point - there is an athletic component to this. Penn State is a great research school, but if they would have had a low-revenue football program back in the 90's, there is not way they'd be in the Big Ten.
    Again, to say that Notre Dame is not wanted by the Big Ten is absurd.



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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    That is absurd.
    Also, if it was about research dollars, then Washington University in St. Louis would be at the top of the Big Ten's list. Their research $$$ dwarf schools like Indiana, Michigan State, Iowa, and Purdue. Indiana is not a strong research school at all.
    See U of Chicago-Big 10. Why can it not be about research dollars..of schools that wish to compete at a high level in athletics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man
    Again, to say that Notre Dame is not wanted by the Big Ten is absurd.
    Didn't the Big 10 formally invite ND in 1999? If anything the Big 10 would like ND more now.


    Last edited by swarthmoreCY; 05-16-2010 at 04:14 PM.

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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    regardless what he posted he's still a hawk fan, and therefore wrong


    There are not many crowds or places in the country that have a better impact on the game than at Iowa State. The Cyclone fans are truly a sixth man. The place is so loud and always a fantastic crowd." - Former Kansas and current North Carolina head coach Roy Williams

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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    While I don't know tigerhawk or know the validity of his claims, as being a research scientist at Ames Lab on the ISU campus I can definitely see his perspective. While mentioning Ames Lab I am not at liberty to give my opinion (Department of Energy can get kinda upset about that) about our research or anybody's, I can say that as an example, single researchers can bring in multi-million dollar contacts per year of funding and there hundreds of researchers at all major universities. This continues to be of the most utmost concern to the presidents and chancellors of the universities, that is the lifeblood of any major university. No research funds=no major professors=decreased perception and offerings=decreased enrollment=no money! As has been mentioned in this thread, why not bring in small private univesities that bring in lots of research dollars? Athletics obviously have bearing as has been thoroughly discussed in numerous threads. Interestingly enough, ISU is a major research university (like Nebraska) and is a member of the American Association of Universities (Association of American Universities) like Nebraska, Missouri, Pittsburgh and Washington University in St. Louis (not Notre Dame, Syracuse, or Rutgers) but this year is near the top 20 in overall athletics based on the Learfield's Cup National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics - National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics (ISU 22nd, Nebraska 6th, Missouri 42nd, Pittsburgh 83rd). Based on this, Nebraska is definitely a good choice for the BT as they bring everything the BT wants, but so does Missouri and ISU. This is what I've been thinking as the whole BT expansion thing rages on. And don't think that President Geoffery doesn't know the BT reputation for research (Penn State chemistry professor for years!). Just my two, maybe five cents worth.

    Edit: as yCy mentioned my mistake, Rutgers and Syracuse are members of the AAU. This definitley changes the scope of who would be viable fits for the BT as their Learfields are Rutgers 78th, and Syracuse 68th.


    Last edited by cyentist; 05-16-2010 at 11:00 PM.

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    Re: B10/11 expansion...this guy gets it and absolutely nails it on the head

    cyentist, you're right about Notre Dame not being a member of the Association of American Universities, but Syracuse (1966) and Rutgers (1989) are members.



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