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    The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Snagged this off of a different board. Thought it was interesting - even if the outcome is disappointing.

    The Value of Expansion Candidates to the Big Ten Network FRANK THE TANK’S SLANT



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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Still don't think Texas is going. I just don't think they ever want to relinquish their superiority, and any conference they're in with other traditional power conference teams, will be a power conference.

    Rutgers and Syracuse I'd almost call certainties. The question is the third team.


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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    If Big Ten goes to 14 or 16, would not Notre Dame become more irrelevant as an independent? If I was Big ten, I would drop them for other league members as the expansion would be over.


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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    I can't see Texas or Notre Dame going. ND prides itself in being independent and I don't think they want to really change that anytime soon, and it would only really benefit Texas for football. I mean, their players would be traveling so much during the week for every other sport. Just slightly ridiculous.



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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Cy's Taxi View Post
    I can't see Texas or Notre Dame going. ND prides itself in being independent and I don't think they want to really change that anytime soon, and it would only really benefit Texas for football. I mean, their players would be traveling so much during the week for every other sport. Just slightly ridiculous.
    No, it would also be tremendously advantageous to Texas from an academic standpoint as well. Being a member in the CIC would increase research funding for Texas by HUNDREDS of millions of dollars.....the TV revenue for athletics is peanuts compared to the amount of money gained academically.

    Also, on your comment about ND, a change is coming. ND's original sweetheart deal has worn its welcome (and they've been treated less favorably in each new BCS contract). ND is starting to become irrelevant. An irrelevant independent is sure to fail. You can be irrelevant in the Big Ten and still be OK, but being irrelevant as an independent? That spells disaster. If the Big Ten poaches a couple of teams from the Big East, the Big East could very well collapse, leaving ND without a conference in every sport. That gets VERY expensive and difficult from a scheduling perspective. ND needs to make a move now. If they wait and the Big Ten fills up, they're gonna be in a ton of trouble. They'd be better being proactive than reactive. I hope Delany gives the ultimatum of "join or else" and I pray that ND's egos make them say no.....there is nothing I'd love more than to see ND tell the Big Ten to **** off then eventually watch their athletic program die within the next two decades because of that ill advised ego driven decision.

    As for the Big Ten, here is what I'd love to see, and I posted this on quite a few other boards. This was based on the assumption that a move to 16 would require the state of Texas, but according to the above link, that may not be the case:

    I have always opposed a 16 team Big Ten, until just today. A poster on the Iowa board brought something up to me that I had never considered. I had always assumed a conference could only be composed of two divisions, however, unless there is a bylaw outlawing four divisions, why wouldn't that work? Here is how it could work out. In my best case scenario, the Big Ten would add the following five teams:

    Notre Dame
    Texas
    Texas A&M
    Rutgers
    Syracuse

    I chose these teams for a reason. If the Big Ten was to expand to 16, TV viewers would be essential. Financially, expansion to 16 would NOT work without the state of Texas. The BTN would need the entire state of Texas on basic cable to bring home a large amount of $$$ in subscriptions. I've crunched the numbers before (if any of you remember my long winded posts on this topic) and the addition of Texas, TAMU, and ND would pay themselves off without even including the $15M expected to be generated by the conference championship game (those three teams would likely bring in more than the $66M necessary in TV revenue for them to pay their "buy in"). So, if we are going to 16, that means the last two teams will need to bring in about $44M in order for the move to be financially viable. We haven't even touched the $15M yet generated from the conference championship game, so lets assume we add that in here. Now all we need to do is generate $29M in TV subscriptions between two teams to make this move economically viable. Lets just assume for a second that adding Syracuse and Rutgers would do that (That move would definitely nail down the 8+ million viewers in New Jersey and would likely gain some of the 19+ million viewers in NY due to the addition of Syracuse, definitely not all of the 19M viewers, but the move would definitely add some of them).

    If this move would be economically viable (which I suspect it would be), I propose breaking this 16 team league into FOUR divisions. Here are the divisions I'd propose:

    Division 1

    Iowa
    Wisconsin
    Minnesota
    Illinois

    Division 2

    Ohio State
    Michigan
    Michigan State
    Northwestern

    Division 3

    Penn State
    Notre Dame
    Syracuse
    Rutgers

    Division 4

    Texas
    Texas A&M
    Indiana
    Purdue

    Now, how do you determine who plays in the title game? The Divisions would be bracketed every two years. For instance, in 2010 and 2011 Divisions 1&2 would play each other. The overall champion of those two divisions would play in the conference championship game against the champion of divisions 3 & 4. Then, in 2012 and 2013 Division 1 would be bracketed with division 3. In 2014 and 2015 division 1 would be bracketed with division 4. Thus, every 6 years you would play every team in the conference twice. The only flaw with this system is it only would require 7 conference games per season, however, I guess you could play one team from one of the other two divisions in order to get to 8 games. This system (if you only played 7 conference games especially!) would almost guarantee you'd never see a rematch in the conference title game and would also allow almost every rivalry in the Big Ten to continue without sacrificing the "balanced divisions" that seem so important to everyone. Lets assume division 1 has a down year, does that matter much? Not at all if they are bracketed against Division 2 and that division champ is very strong.

    I actually love the thought of going to 16 teams if this were the way the Big Ten implemented it. Thoughts?

    Let me reiterate....I ONLY support going to 16 (and only think it is economically viable) if Texas is involved.



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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Keep dreaming, hawkfan...



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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    surely Indiana and Purdue are drooling over hawkfan's scenario.


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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Quote Originally Posted by everyyard View Post
    surely Indiana and Purdue are drooling over hawkfan's scenario.
    You can't be serious? You're telling me, if you are Indiana and Purdue, you wouldn't WANT to be guaranteed a game in Texas nearly every season? Texas, as in the best football recruiting state in the country. Indiana/Purdue would have to play a couple of tough games every season no matter what division they are in....they just as well be in a division with Texas and gain the added benefit of telling Texas recruits that they will have a game in their state, in all liklihood, once every season.

    I'd love for Iowa to be in a division with Texas and TAMU, I just couldn't make it work and preserve the rivalries with Wiscy and Minny.

    These divisions were made to preserve as many rivalries as possible.



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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkfan View Post
    You can't be serious? You're telling me, if you are Indiana and Purdue, you wouldn't WANT to be guaranteed a game in Texas nearly every season? Texas, as in the best football recruiting state in the country. Indiana/Purdue would have to play a couple of tough games every season no matter what division they are in....they just as well be in a division with Texas and gain the added benefit of telling Texas recruits that they will have a game in their state, in all liklihood, once every season.

    I'd love for Iowa to be in a division with Texas and TAMU, I just couldn't make it work and preserve the rivalries with Wiscy and Minny.

    These divisions were made to preserve as many rivalries as possible.
    so in your divisions, Iowa and Wisconsin and Minni and Illinois all have decent probability on any given year to finish 1 or 2 or 3 in their division. But in your scenario for Purdue and Indiana the best they can hope for in their division is 3rd. Ask Baylor how this works out for them.

    Also, I too would LOVE to see a division of Iowa, one other team...preferably wisconsin and Texas and A&M.


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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Quote Originally Posted by everyyard View Post
    so in your divisions, Iowa and Wisconsin and Minni and Illinois all have decent probability on any given year to finish 1 or 2 or 3 in their division. But in your scenario for Purdue and Indiana the best they can hope for in their division is 3rd. Ask Baylor how this works out for them.
    Best they can finish is 3rd? Over the last decade Purdue and TAMU have almost identical records. Since 2000:

    Purdue: 67-57
    TAMU: 63-59

    I think Purdue would have a pretty good shot at 2nd, and in some years, might even upset Texas....Purdue was down this year, but historically they are a pretty strong football program. And you really think the Big Ten gives a damn about the opinion of Indiana football? Seriously? Indiana football has always been and will always be a cellar dweller in the Big Ten. Again, being in the state of Texas is the best thing that could happen to Indiana because it gives them a good shot at at least pulling some decent recruits from a football hotbed.

    Also, if you read my format, finishing first in your division really doesn't matter all that much because you still have to beat the four teams in your "bracketed" division in order to advance to the conference championship game.



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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Further, it isn't like you can make a 16 team conference and make every single team ecstatic about the divisional lineup. I'd say batting 14/16 is pretty damn good.



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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkfan View Post
    Further, it isn't like you can make a 16 team conference and make every single team ecstatic about the divisional lineup. I'd say batting 14/16 is pretty damn good.
    I'd say if you need a unanimous vote from member schools to admit someone new, they all better be pretty ******* happy with it.


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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkfan View Post
    Best they can finish is 3rd? Over the last decade Purdue and TAMU have almost identical records. Since 2000:

    Purdue: 67-57
    TAMU: 63-59

    I think Purdue would have a pretty good shot at 2nd, and in some years, might even upset Texas....Purdue was down this year, but historically they are a pretty strong football program. And you really think the Big Ten gives a damn about the opinion of Indiana football? Seriously? Indiana football has always been and will always be a cellar dweller in the Big Ten. Again, being in the state of Texas is the best thing that could happen to Indiana because it gives them a good shot at at least pulling some decent recruits from a football hotbed.

    Also, if you read my format, finishing first in your division really doesn't matter all that much because you still have to beat the four teams in your "bracketed" division in order to advance to the conference championship game.
    How many of Purdue's good years were battling against the two biggest schools in the best recruiting land in the country in a warm weather environment. A&M did fine until they had to play other schools with tradition but the same advantages (OU,OSU, and a surging TTech). I love the idea that the Big10 thinks it can reign in Texas and make them into just another member on even footing with the rest of the big10. My honest opinion is the Big10 is pretty special and expanding too far is just greed and will likely destroy all that is special about the conference except the money. And, IF Texas is a member...it will be Texas's conference.


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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkfan View Post
    Being a member in the CIC would increase research funding for Texas by HUNDREDS of millions of dollars.
    Texas already receives more in research funding than over half of the CIC schools, and they are already a member of the AAU.

    The CIC would not increase research funding by hundreds of millions of dollars for the University of Texas.



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    Re: The Value of Expansion Candidates to Big 10

    Quote Originally Posted by everyyard View Post
    How many of Purdue's good years were battling against the two biggest schools in the best recruiting land in the country in a warm weather environment. A&M did fine until they had to play other schools with tradition but the same advantages (OU,OSU, and a surging TTech). I love the idea that the Big10 thinks it can reign in Texas and make them into just another member on even footing with the rest of the big10. My honest opinion is the Big10 is pretty special and expanding too far is just greed and will likely destroy all that is special about the conference except the money. And, IF Texas is a member...it will be Texas's conference.
    That statement is completely incorrect. Look back over the last decade and you'll find that Michigan and OSU have recruited just as well as Texas and Oklahoma. Michigan actually finished HIGHER in recruiting rankings than Texas in many of Lloyd Carrs recruiting years. So Texas/Oklahoma have pretty much the exact same athletes as Michigan/OSU have had for most of the last decade.

    So both teams have had to play against 2 elite level recruiting teams. There really isn't another elite level recruiting team in the Big 12 over the last decade. Nebraska used to be, but that died off after the 01 season (and further, TAMU doesn't play Nebraska every season anyway). So really each team has played roughly the same number of games against elite level recruiting programs and come out with almost the same exact record.

    Also, a fact that you are conveniently ignoring is that TAMU had to play against Texas in the SWC for the entire history of that conference. Do you know what TAMU's record was against Texas from 1980 to 2000? 13-8.

    Everything is cyclical in college football. Programs go through dry streaks (as do conferences, the Big Ten proved that last season), then recover. Purdue/TAMU both are in a bit of a rough patch, but if you look at the history of both programs, it is likely they will both recover to become solid programs again.



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