MLB: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)
Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 55
  1. #1
    Prospect G4Clones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    30
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    I was reading another thread that talked about reasons to root for a particular baseball team in major league baseball. The thread eventually lead to a post by a Red Sox fan. In his response, he was claiming that the Red Sox are different from the Yankees and other big market teams because they "draft" and "develop" their players while the Yankees don't draft as well but wait around for other smaller market teams to develop the players for them. After the player has reached their prime, the Yankees simply buy them and put together a mini-all-star team. But the Red Sox fan implied they are similar to a small market team and not the Yankees because they draft and develop and do not simply buy their way to the top.

    This response from a Red Sox fan is a huge crock of **** in my opinion. Yeah they evaluated and selected the right talent in the draft and then developed them into good players. I get that part. But remember, the Twins have had the same level of success (if not better) in evaluating and developing talent than the Red Sox. The part where teams like the Red Sox and teams like the Twins separate is with their respected payroll levels. The Red Sox have a ridiculous amount of money to spend to keep these players around for seemingly as long as they would like. Meanwhile, the Twins do not have that luxury and therefore must select one or maybe two (at the most) elite players they developed through their farm system and turn around and build there team around the two players they have labeled "the nucleus". The Twins do not have enough money to keep all the great players they have developed. Chew on this...what if the Twins had Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Micheal Cuddyer, Denard Span, Torii Hunter, Jason Kubel, Jason Bartlett, Johan Santana, Frankie Liriano, Matt Garza (yes he was a cancer but was really good) and all the other bullpen talent they have lost over the years. Looks like a loaded team to me. This is the exact same thing that the Red Sox are doing right now. They can afford to pay and keep all there great home grown talent around for many years...and win Championships. While Twins fans are left wondering what could have been.

    As for the Cubs. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read a post by a Cubs fan in the other MLB thread when they brought up the general popularity of the Cubs. He couldn't understand why so many other fan bases (Twins for example) do not like the Cubs and choose to root against them in many cases. There are so many Cubs fans out there that say "Why do you cheer against the Cubbies? THEY ARE THE LOVABLE-DOVABLE CUBBIES! They never win the World Series or compete against your team. They haven't won since before Teddy Roosevelt"..blah blah blah blah. I tell you what. I am one of those Twins fans that cannot STAND the Cubs or the majority of their fans for that matter. For one, they are a Chicago team. Being a Minnesota sports fan that doesn't help my impression of them. But the biggest thing for me is they claim to be the best and most loyal fanbase in the world of sports. Loyal yes. Best no. I will never consider a fanbase the "best" in sports when they blame all their postseason woes on EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THE CUBS TEAM ITSELF. This is the same "best" fanbase that for all practical purposes, ended a mans life because they wanted to blame something rather than giving credit to the Marlins (who was the better team) or blaming the many mistakes by the bullpen, the offense, and the starting pitching. Remember people, the Cubs were winning by a significant margin right after that "event" happened. It was GAME 6. They had another game after that with their ace on the mound at home in Game 7. Face it. It was a combination between the Marlins being tougher and the Cubs choking. It was not because of one man who was sitting in the front row bleachers. Bartman was doing what any other fan in their right mind would have done in the same situation (Big playoff game...sitting right next to the field...foul ball is coming my way...I want that souvenir). But no, we will blame it on him. People, the man is currently barricaded in his house and has to use the Witness Protection Program to change his name 3 times a year so some stupid fan of the "best fanbase in the world" doesn't try to run him over with their '96 F150. Basically, I wanted to say that I think the Cubs fanbase's perception of itself is a complete joke..Get over yourselves, there is no supernatural being that is punishing this one team...HERES TO ANOTHER 100 YEARS OF MISERY.

    I will end this by saying the Twins will be a force the Yankees will have to deal with come playoff time.


    OH yeah...Go Cyclones



  2. #2
    Addict
    Points: 97,710, Level: 97
    Level completed: 33%, Points required for next Level: 1,340
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    everyyard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    6,101
    Points
    97,710
    Level
    97
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 165
    Given: 210

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Quote Originally Posted by G4Clones View Post
    I was reading another thread that talked about reasons to root for a particular baseball team in major league baseball. The thread eventually lead to a post by a Red Sox fan. In his response, he was claiming that the Red Sox are different from the Yankees and other big market teams because they "draft" and "develop" their players while the Yankees don't draft as well but wait around for other smaller market teams to develop the players for them. After the player has reached their prime, the Yankees simply buy them and put together a mini-all-star team. But the Red Sox fan implied they are similar to a small market team and not the Yankees because they draft and develop and do not simply buy their way to the top.

    This response from a Red Sox fan is a huge crock of **** in my opinion. Yeah they evaluated and selected the right talent in the draft and then developed them into good players. I get that part. But remember, the Twins have had the same level of success (if not better) in evaluating and developing talent than the Red Sox. The part where teams like the Red Sox and teams like the Twins separate is with their respected payroll levels. The Red Sox have a ridiculous amount of money to spend to keep these players around for seemingly as long as they would like. Meanwhile, the Twins do not have that luxury and therefore must select one or maybe two (at the most) elite players they developed through their farm system and turn around and build there team around the two players they have labeled "the nucleus". The Twins do not have enough money to keep all the great players they have developed. Chew on this...what if the Twins had Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Micheal Cuddyer, Denard Span, Torii Hunter, Jason Kubel, Jason Bartlett, Johan Santana, Frankie Liriano, Matt Garza (yes he was a cancer but was really good) and all the other bullpen talent they have lost over the years. Looks like a loaded team to me. This is the exact same thing that the Red Sox are doing right now. They can afford to pay and keep all there great home grown talent around for many years...and win Championships. While Twins fans are left wondering what could have been.

    As for the Cubs. I almost fell out of my chair laughing when I read a post by a Cubs fan in the other MLB thread when they brought up the general popularity of the Cubs. He couldn't understand why so many other fan bases (Twins for example) do not like the Cubs and choose to root against them in many cases. There are so many Cubs fans out there that say "Why do you cheer against the Cubbies? THEY ARE THE LOVABLE-DOVABLE CUBBIES! They never win the World Series or compete against your team. They haven't won since before Teddy Roosevelt"..blah blah blah blah. I tell you what. I am one of those Twins fans that cannot STAND the Cubs or the majority of their fans for that matter. For one, they are a Chicago team. Being a Minnesota sports fan that doesn't help my impression of them. But the biggest thing for me is they claim to be the best and most loyal fanbase in the world of sports. Loyal yes. Best no. I will never consider a fanbase the "best" in sports when they blame all their postseason woes on EVERYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THE CUBS TEAM ITSELF. This is the same "best" fanbase that for all practical purposes, ended a mans life because they wanted to blame something rather than giving credit to the Marlins (who was the better team) or blaming the many mistakes by the bullpen, the offense, and the starting pitching. Remember people, the Cubs were winning by a significant margin right after that "event" happened. It was GAME 6. They had another game after that with their ace on the mound at home in Game 7. Face it. It was a combination between the Marlins being tougher and the Cubs choking. It was not because of one man who was sitting in the front row bleachers. Bartman was doing what any other fan in their right mind would have done in the same situation (Big playoff game...sitting right next to the field...foul ball is coming my way...I want that souvenir). But no, we will blame it on him. People, the man is currently barricaded in his house and has to use the Witness Protection Program to change his name 3 times a year so some stupid fan of the "best fanbase in the world" doesn't try to run him over with their '96 F150. Basically, I wanted to say that I think the Cubs fanbase's perception of itself is a complete joke..Get over yourselves, there is no supernatural being that is punishing this one team...HERES TO ANOTHER 100 YEARS OF MISERY.

    I will end this by saying the Twins will be a force the Yankees will have to deal with come playoff time.


    OH yeah...Go Cyclones
    would you like the number for a good therapist?


    ALL IN
    www.cyclonejerseys.com
    Always buying historically relevant ISU gear

  3. #3
    Addict
    Points: 162,487, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 16.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    Clonefan32's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    9,285
    Points
    162,487
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,047
    Given: 11

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY]YouTube - Everyone Is Now Dumber - Billy Madison[/ame]



  4. #4
    Addict
    Points: 102,176, Level: 99
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 874
    Overall activity: 23.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    JP4CY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sommerset
    Posts
    6,654
    Points
    102,176
    Level
    99
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 591
    Given: 233

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Dude, you really can't type that much and expect everyone to read it all.



  5. #5
    Starter
    Points: 13,201, Level: 34
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 149
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Ames, IA
    Posts
    674
    Points
    13,201
    Level
    34
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1
    Given: 1
    Quote Originally Posted by johnpkelly81 View Post
    Dude, you really can't type that much and expect everyone to read it all.
    Never understood this comment. I don't care about baseball, yet I read the whole thing--good vent.

    Is it really that hard to read a block of text? :/



  6. #6
    Prospect G4Clones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    30
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Quote Originally Posted by everyyard View Post
    would you like the number for a good therapist?
    Why the hell would I need a therapist? Don't you go to a therapist to vent your problems? I think that I have already don't that to you guys.

    I got a little advice for the other guy. If you think my post is too long....then don't read it...how hard is that? I don't post on here very much but I can guarantee that you have read posts longer than mine on other subjects (cough...mens basketball...cough)

    Now that I have vented I will ask you all these questions

    1. What do you think of fanbases like the Red Sox, Yankees and other larger market teams. Do you buy some of the arguments of the Red Sox nation that they do it the "small market" way and that they are different from the Yankees

    2. As far as the Cubs fanbase...What do the fans of other teams think of the Cubs and their fans. I have already laid out what I think of them. What is your opinion of them?



  7. #7
    Prospect
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    45
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)




  8. #8
    Pro
    Points: 79,968, Level: 87
    Level completed: 90%, Points required for next Level: 182
    Overall activity: 5.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    RyCy04's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Omaha, NE
    Posts
    2,376
    Points
    79,968
    Level
    87
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 158
    Given: 16

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Ridiculous



  9. #9
    Pro
    Points: 87,070, Level: 91
    Level completed: 80%, Points required for next Level: 380
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    FDWxMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Des Moines
    Posts
    2,260
    Points
    87,070
    Level
    91
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 71
    Given: 33

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Quote Originally Posted by G4Clones View Post
    The thread eventually lead to a post by a Red Sox fan. In his response, he was claiming that the Red Sox are different from the Yankees and other big market teams because they "draft" and "develop" their players while the Yankees don't draft as well but wait around for other smaller market teams to develop the players for them.
    That's actually really funny...considering their two best starters (Lackey/Beckett) are purchases.

    And of the 13 position players they have up right now 9 or 10 are buys...
    C Victor Martinez, Indians
    SS Scutaro, FA, not any good though
    3B Beltre, FA
    OF Cameron, FA
    OF Drew FA,
    DH Ortiz, FA
    OF Hermida, Florida fire sale
    3B Lowell, Florida FA
    UTL, Hall, FA
    C, Varitek...techincally brought up by Sox, but was actually a Twins draftee that they couldn't sign, so you could make the big $$$ argument here.

    They do have a great player in Pedroia, and Ellsbury has potential, but the meat of their team was not drafted and developed. Not that I'm saying they shouldn't be able to get guys in free agency to fix problems...but lets just call it what it is. Yes the Yankees are worse, but the Red Sox aren't far behind in part of the problem.



  10. #10
    Addict
    Points: 101,246, Level: 99
    Level completed: 10%, Points required for next Level: 1,804
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    HiltonMagic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    6,187
    Points
    101,246
    Level
    99
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 20
    Given: 46

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    I don't quite understand what these 'rediculous problems' in baseball are.


    Don't confuse hope for a plan.

  11. #11
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 48,047, Level: 67
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 303
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Bubbahotep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Des Moines
    Posts
    3,519
    Points
    48,047
    Level
    67
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Baseball is becoming a bigger joke every year.


    “There have been a lotta tough guys. There have been pretenders. And there have been contenders. But there is only one king.”

  12. #12
    Addict
    Points: 143,689, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    RayShimley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    6,052
    Points
    143,689
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 93
    Given: 30

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Quote Originally Posted by FDWxMan View Post
    That's actually really funny...considering their two best starters (Lackey/Beckett) are purchases.

    And of the 13 position players they have up right now 9 or 10 are buys...
    C Victor Martinez, Indians
    SS Scutaro, FA, not any good though
    3B Beltre, FA
    OF Cameron, FA
    OF Drew FA,
    DH Ortiz, FA
    OF Hermida, Florida fire sale
    3B Lowell, Florida FA
    UTL, Hall, FA
    C, Varitek...techincally brought up by Sox, but was actually a Twins draftee that they couldn't sign, so you could make the big $$$ argument here.

    They do have a great player in Pedroia, and Ellsbury has potential, but the meat of their team was not drafted and developed. Not that I'm saying they shouldn't be able to get guys in free agency to fix problems...but lets just call it what it is. Yes the Yankees are worse, but the Red Sox aren't far behind in part of the problem.

    You have no idea what you are talking about so please refrain from posting any more BS before you do a little research. Ever heard of a shortstop named Hanley Ramirez? He was a product of the Red Sox farm system and was traded to Florida for both Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett. Florida got their franchise player and the Red Sox won the World Series 2 years later behind Beckett's solid post-season performances.

    Red Sox complete deal for Beckett, Lowell - MLB - ESPN

    I didn't see the thread the OP is talking about, but I would agree that the Red Sox are certainly NOT a "small market" team. There is no denying they have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball (4th highest in 2009). However, I'm guessing the point the person was trying to make is that the Red Sox have been more prudent than the Yankees with their money and prospects in the last decade, which led them to two WS titles and a solid core of young players locked up for the future (Pedroia/Youkilis/Lester/Beckett). Unlike the Yankees, the Red Sox have been very hesitant to sign older players (30+) to huge long-term contracts or to trade off their most talented prospects for mid-season pick-ups.

    The Twins do a good job analyzing talent, but so do a lot of other "small-market" teams. The Marlins have won 2 WS titles since the expansion in 1993. The Twins haven't even won a pennant in that timeframe. The Marlins average payroll is $33.2 million over that time, the Twins average was $42.8. In 2010, the Twins payroll is nearly 100 million ($97.6) which is good enough for 10th in MLB, so forgive me if I'm not too sympathetic.



  13. #13
    Pro
    Points: 38,418, Level: 60
    Level completed: 48%, Points required for next Level: 632
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    acrozier22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    In van down by the river!
    Posts
    2,598
    Points
    38,418
    Level
    60
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 9
    Given: 1

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    I don't respect any twins fans because they claim they are great fans but don't actually buy tickets to go to games. Every time they make the playoffs their are tickets available the day of the game. Pathetic.



  14. #14
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 50,039, Level: 69
    Level completed: 21%, Points required for next Level: 1,111
    Overall activity: 7.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    enisthemenace's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Runnells, IA
    Posts
    3,877
    Points
    50,039
    Level
    69
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 257
    Given: 221

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Quote Originally Posted by RayShimley View Post
    You have no idea what you are talking about so please refrain from posting any more BS before you do a little research. Ever heard of a shortstop named Hanley Ramirez? He was a product of the Red Sox farm system and was traded to Florida for both Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett. Florida got their franchise player and the Red Sox won the World Series 2 years later behind Beckett's solid post-season performances.

    Red Sox complete deal for Beckett, Lowell - MLB - ESPN

    I didn't see the thread the OP is talking about, but I would agree that the Red Sox are certainly NOT a "small market" team. There is no denying they have the 2nd highest payroll in baseball (4th highest in 2009). However, I'm guessing the point the person was trying to make is that the Red Sox have been more prudent than the Yankees with their money and prospects in the last decade, which led them to two WS titles and a solid core of young players locked up for the future (Pedroia/Youkilis/Lester/Beckett). Unlike the Yankees, the Red Sox have been very hesitant to sign older players (30+) to huge long-term contracts or to trade off their most talented prospects for mid-season pick-ups.

    The Twins do a good job analyzing talent, but so do a lot of other "small-market" teams. The Marlins have won 2 WS titles since the expansion in 1993. The Twins haven't even won a pennant in that timeframe. The Marlins average payroll is $33.2 million over that time, the Twins average was $42.8. In 2010, the Twins payroll is nearly 100 million ($97.6) which is good enough for 10th in MLB, so forgive me if I'm not too sympathetic.
    I am in no way a Yankee fan...can't stand them really...but look back at the rosters that won however many pennants in the 90's-00's.

    Jeter
    Posada
    B Williams
    Pettite
    Mariano Ramirez
    Cano - more recently

    As far as I know, these are all guys developed within the Yankee system, aren't they?

    That's more than the Red Sox have developed. Plus, they were kept through the duration, and not traded for known commodities (i.e. Beckett).



  15. #15
    Addict
    Points: 143,689, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    RayShimley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    6,052
    Points
    143,689
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 93
    Given: 30

    re: Ridiculous Problems in baseball dealing with the Red Sox and Cubs (as I see it)

    Quote Originally Posted by enisthemenace View Post
    I am in no way a Yankee fan...can't stand them really...but look back at the rosters that won however many pennants in the 90's-00's.

    Jeter
    Posada
    B Williams
    Pettite
    Mariano Ramirez
    Cano - more recently

    As far as I know, these are all guys developed within the Yankee system, aren't they?

    That's more than the Red Sox have developed. Plus, they were kept through the duration, and not traded for known commodities (i.e. Beckett).
    First off, no argument that the Yankees were not dominant in the 90's. It wasn't till after the 2000's where they started to pay the price for all the huge contracts they doled out (J. Giambi, G.Sheffield, J. Wright, K. Brown, C. Pavano, etc..)

    I assume you meant Mariano Rivera, but yes those are all products of the yankees farm system. Also, Beckett wasn't traded for a "known quantity." Hanley Ramirez was one of the BoSox's top prospects, but he had never even played in a Major League game at the time he was traded.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • TV: Mediacom 22
  • HOOPS: Iowa State vs. Drake
  • December 20, 2014
  • 04:00 PM