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  1. #1
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    Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    Players leave, it's part of college sports. I get that.

    I'm just frustrated/disappointed - because I see our balloon of depth slowly deflating. I'm not referring to stud-depth as we see from Kansas and other top teams. But in '07/'08, I did expect us to have a solid starting 5 and another 4-7 guys that could play significant minutes if needed. Only one of the losses so far affects our starting 5...

    Corey M. struggled most of last year and was forced to start almost every game. He did though, come into his own the last few weeks and look the part of a good point guard. Not great like we've been accustomed to in recent years - but he played well. I was hoping to see more of that in his senior season at ISU.

    Dodie looked good early and had fans excited. He even earned a starting role in at least one game. As the season wore on, it seemed to take it's toll on the freshman. As Corey improved, it seemed Dodie's play went the other way slightly. I was looking forward to him climbing that freshman wall and improving in '07/'08.

    Ross contributed the least of the 3 this season. I think a lot of that has to do with the illness he suffered. However, even before that he looked lost in the new G-Mac offense. Cory J. actually looked like the best big man early in the season, with Jiri sticking to old habits. Anyway, Ross did give us some decent minutes in a few games where Jiri was in a defensive funk or foul trouble. I think with a healthy off-season and another year learning from G-Mac, Ross could've been a solid bench player we could expect 5-8 good minutes from.

    All of that - poof - gone.

    So here we are again, going into a basketball season with a bunch of new faces that are going to be forced to play a lot more minutes right out of the gate. It's frustrating to say the least. I was really looking forward to a year with not only depth, but the slower progression of younger athletes - giving G-Mac even more coaching power.

    Instead, it will be to the wolves for some of these guys. Hopefully they've got thick skin.



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    Ross misses the run and gun game of Wayne's!



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    It is definitely part of the game, but we have to live with it and move on. I would think that the caliber of basketball player we are bringing in this season will be much better than what the staff had to scramble for on a moments notice last season. Maybe these players that are leaving saw the writing on the wall and did not want to become bench players after starting much of this past season. I do not, however, feel quite as bitter as I did a year ago when Stinson, Blalock and company left. Good things are on the horizon for the basketball team, we just need to be patient.


    Go Cyclones!!

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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    taking a different view of this - if you look at some of the more historically successful programs, there is turnover almost every year. One of my work colleagues who went to Indiana was telling me the other day that he is actually encouraged when 1 or 2 players leave per year as it is an indication that recruting classes are strong, and players that see the writing on the wall continue fall off the bottom.
    I honestly don't think attrition is a bad thing until you lose starters or '6th man' type players due to performance or direction of the overall team.



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    Two things:

    -This sort of turnover is quite typical at schools all over the country. I have lived in many places and it is the norm to see 1-3 players "turnover" every year for some reason other than graduation.

    -I personally think depth is way overrated in basketball. If you look at most programs, they are playing 7 (maybe 8) guys significant minutes. The bottom line is that you want to have your best players on the court as much as possible. Additionally, it is just tough to get a good rhythm and flow when you are trying to play more than just 7 or 8 consistently. Just look at Florida and Ohio State...Florida played 8 guys in the Championship game, only 7 got more than 10 minutes, and 4 guys had the majority of the minutes playing over 30 minutes each...Ohio State played 9 but only 6 got more than 10 minutes and, once again, 4 guys had the majority of minutes playing over 30 minutes each. For the season, only 7 guys on Florida's team averaged more than 10 minutes a game...9 guys OSU's team averaged more than 10 minutes a game but one was right at 10 minutes per contest and this is partly due to the time Oden missed in the first half of the season. In my opinion, the biggest value to depth is having more competitive practices. The reality is that most successful teams are only playing 7-8 guys consistently.



    I cheer for two teams, Iowa State and whoever is playing the hawkeyes.

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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    I think your work colleague is absolutely correct, Helgo. College Football and Basketball are bottom line businesses these days. It's survival of the fittest and nothing more. When players leave, it's an opportunity to improve the team and improve your business.



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclone#1 View Post
    I personally think depth is way overrated in basketball.
    I understand what you're saying, yet I disagree. Look at the games from the NCAA tournament this year. Namely the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round games.

    In many of those, the lower seeded team either held their own or jumped out to early leads. In almost all of those games, the higher seeded team was able to come back in the 2nd half and win - why?

    Their depth just overcame the lower seeded team.

    We saw in a number of games that the starting 5 on each team was relatively even. Depth however, was no match.

    Granted, if you have a stellar starting 5 plus one or two more very good players - you're set. Yet I'd take the depth any day.



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    I would have a problem if it were Wesley Johnson or some of our best and brightest, but the players we are losing this year are role players that Gmac has recruited over. Marsden would probably see very minor minutes the next few years.

    Dodie was a good role player, but the players comming in to replace him are better from what we have heard.

    CMac was a good guy and nice player but he would have been a role player also.

    I am suprised that Dodie would leave. I would have expected to see Cory Johnson leave before Dodie. Cory looked like he was not having a good time last year. Hopefully he will have more fun this year.



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    With 4 guards coming in next year Dodie will have a lot more competition. We're really looking at having 4 servicable big guys (Thompson, Hubalek, Brackins, C. Johnson) and we might have Wes play some 4 again this year... but he has the ability to set himself up for a bigger role in 08. He could be the first guy off the bench that year.

    Dodie's leaving sounds like it could be an academic thing, so it might have nothing to do with the court.




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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    Anybody "in the know" know if Dodie is going to D-1 closer to home, D-2 so he doesn't have to sit out a year, JUCO, or something else?

    I was a big Dodie fan...he played with such poise for a freshman. He didn't seem to be able to get rattled. I will miss seeing him on the court.


    Forever trying to find a cure for the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonedcm View Post
    Ross misses the run and gun game of Wayne's!
    You really can't blame Ross now can you. What I really miss is a great point guard like Will Blalock! Well maybe next year and beyond will be better because sitting home every March is NOT where I want to be!!!!!!!!!!!



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    I liked Dodie also. How can you not like a guy named Dodie.



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUFan22 View Post
    I understand what you're saying, yet I disagree. Look at the games from the NCAA tournament this year. Namely the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round games.

    In many of those, the lower seeded team either held their own or jumped out to early leads. In almost all of those games, the higher seeded team was able to come back in the 2nd half and win - why?

    Their depth just overcame the lower seeded team.

    We saw in a number of games that the starting 5 on each team was relatively even. Depth however, was no match.

    Granted, if you have a stellar starting 5 plus one or two more very good players - you're set. Yet I'd take the depth any day.
    Actually, I don't think the box scores reveal that depth did in the lower seeded teams. If you look, almost every team ultimately decides on a certain rotation of players and is playing 6-8 players "regularly".

    There are a few exceptions where you see 9-11 guys playing regularly (North Carolina comes to mind this year)...but very few.

    What did in the lower seeded teams is that the top 6-8 players on the higher seeded team's roster were better than the top 6-8 on the lower seeded team's roster.

    I would guess that if you took players 8-14 (the bottom 7) off of the Florida or the Ohio State team this year that you could field a couple of pretty good teams (both probably would have beaten ISU this year)...so these teams are deep. But ultimately you see the coach decides on playing just the top 6-8 players regularly in nearly every instance for the reasons I stated in my first post.



    I cheer for two teams, Iowa State and whoever is playing the hawkeyes.

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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    anyone else not really worried about losing McIntosh, Dunson and Marsden?



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    Re: Here today. Gone tomorrow.

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUFan22 View Post
    Players leave, it's part of college sports. I get that.

    I'm just frustrated/disappointed - because I see our balloon of depth slowly deflating. I'm not referring to stud-depth as we see from Kansas and other top teams. But in '07/'08, I did expect us to have a solid starting 5 and another 4-7 guys that could play significant minutes if needed. Only one of the losses so far affects our starting 5...

    Instead, it will be to the wolves for some of these guys. Hopefully they've got thick skin.
    I wouldn't worry too much. I know many of you won't agree with me but I believe the team will be better off in the long-term with the things that have transpired.


    Psyched about the Clones!!!

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