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    Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    In a separate thread, someone mentioned a couple of Huggy's recruits were quite upset with him, one letting him really have it. They committed to him, not KSU.

    We see this often, players committing to a school because of the coach, not the school, location, etc. When that coach leaves, the player is left hanging out to dry in a sense, as he'd rather be elsewhere being the thing that got him to that school left. Coaching contracts are not all that binding, yet the commitment that 18 year old kids sign are bound tight.

    Why?

    Should players be allowed to transfer to another school without sitting out a year in the event a coaching change takes place?



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    I think they should. The coaches make millions and can move however they want to, and the kids get taken advantage of in this situation in my opinion. I am really looking forward to having some coaching stability for our teams for a while.




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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    There should be a penalty. Maybe half of the season. If there was not a player could transfer mid semster to a team he thought had a chance to win the national championship.

    Universities also commit a lot of money to recruiting these kids so they really need to be encouraged somehow to stay with the university.



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    I can see both sides. A coach has a lot to do with going to a school but also if a recruit doesn't like the whole package they may not commit to a school they would not be happy at regardless of the coach.

    I think recruits at least owe it to a school to see who they hire as next coach and talk with them before making up their mind. The school has to be protected some as well. You just can't have your entire class bail and be left with nothing for the new coach. I think in our situation when we hired GMac some of the recruits or players that left didn't fit the direction we were going in so it was not as big of a deal. I mean Stinnett is still a big mess, that kid that went to Minnesota hasn't been too good and Taggart was a complete disappointment. Carr and Degand might have fit in but its hard to tell. Blalock I think would have thrived and Stinson may have never fit in because he and Mike Taylor were kind of the same out of control players but both with different strengths and weakness that helped or hurt the team.



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    Tough one, eh? I too see both sides. And I agree 100% that recruits should give the new coach a chance - talk to him before making any decisions.

    Yet as Bryce said, college athletes are really being taken advantage of. Sign and you belong to us - but we're not going to give you a penny of the hundreds/thousands/millions of dollars we make off you.

    Oh, by the way - if the coach you committed to leaves for another school - you still belong to us. Unless of course, you want to sit out a year while the rest of your peers pass you by and the pro scouts forget about you.

    It would be tough to let 'em transfer without any penalty. Then I think you'd see coaches like Huggy taking half a team with him to a new school. What's stopping him? Rules that you can't talk to recruits/players with other teams? We all know it happens anyways via back channels and such.

    So it's tough...



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    If they change the rule, it will be too easy for kids to just transfer. Who is to say we would still have Jiri and Rahshon right now if they wouldn't have lost a year of eligibility had they left? We thought we were in trouble this year with no players. What happens if the new coach literally had no players? That gives him an unfair advantage upon starting up the new program.

    Unless you're strictly talking about incoming players, then that is a whole other animal. I don't think this is a major issue because most schools understand that it is the ethical thing to do to release them from their LOI. Kansas State isn't one of them.


    Last edited by mwitt; 04-06-2007 at 10:37 AM.

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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    I can see where the students are getting the raw end of the deal and completely agree. However... I realize that schools are paying a coach to do a job. During the job... that person recruited serveral players to come play for that school. Now, if the coach leaves, and players are allowed to leave... then that coach basically got paid to do nothing for the school. The coach essentially brings in no good recruits, and cost the school the opportunity of having a different coach who does bring in solid recruits, and gets paid big bucks for doing that.

    I think coaches should be held more accountable should they leave a program.

    If a player decides to commit to a school mainly to play for a certain coach, then if the coach says he's going to be at that school to coach this incoming player, maybe he should sign a contract and have it written on paper for the player. This way if the coach decides to go elsewhere, he might have some legal fees to going to the student coming directly out of the coaches pocket (not the schools).

    Now, I'm sure that this is a terrible idea and will get torn to shreds by a lot of people on here. It was just an idea that came to my head and likely has lots of flaws. I just want to see coaches being held more accountable. A school pays them a lot of money to do something for the school, not screw them over, by stealing their recruits, or screw the recruits over by forcing them to stay at a school they thought a certain coach would be at.



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    A huge potential problem with letting players go with no penalty would be having a coach use his players as a bargaining chip. Just think if a coach like Donovan contacted a school like Kentucky last year looking for a big payday, saying I'll bring 5 starting guys from a championship team, and now has Kentucky and Florida in a bidding frenzy for not only a coach but the best five starting players. Seems coaches would acquire the players and then shop them along with himself for the highest offer. I bet Huggy would have made more money if he could have brought his players with him without penalty. Might as well then just have players sign up with coaches.

    While I also agree that players are not handed golden keys it's not as if they don't get anything. Players tie-up limited scholarships, receive a no cost education, room and board, media exposure, a stage to perform on, and free access to top notch coaching. Plus all the other soft perks that are inherent with athletes in college.

    Again, not saying it's fair for players compared to the coaches. But I think the issue is not with the players, it's with coaches and other individuals taking advantage of the schools, players, and even the fans. I for one would like to have coaches sign contracts without buyout clauses, or at least huge ones. That would help protect the other parties involved.



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    I believe that a few years back the NCAA tried going the opposite direction in regard to players transfering. The took away the ability for transfer players to redshirt the year that they had to sit out. Telling players that if you are going to transfer, you will lose a year of eligilibility. This was a huge failure that was quickly righted.
    Going back to the original topic though. I understand that often a coach recruits players to them, and to their system. But the coach and the player are representatives of the school that they play/coach for. They need to understand that they aren't just signing on as players on a basketball team, but as ambassadors for a university. If they choose to leave for a different school, there should be some reprocussion.
    If there was no consequence to transfering I think there would be a shift in the quality of play in college hoops. The rich would get richer, and the poor, poorer.
    Hypothetical example: Coach X sees great undeveloped talent in a player. But he doesn't have a scholarship to give for raw talent. He can then tell this player, I don't have a scholarship for you right now, but if you go to this lesser known school for a year, and improve your jumpshot, I will have a scholarship for you next year.
    All that being said, I think the rule that is in place is working just fine.
    I have absolutely no sympathy for Huggins being yelled at, and I have little sympathy for any player that gets burned by Huggins. They were foolish to trust him in the first place. Bill Walker is really the only one that will lose out here. Beasley and company will be released from their scholarships and WVU will have their greatest recruiting class ever. Bill Walker will be stuck in Manhattan, and probably the one that was pretty ****** about it.



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    Quote Originally Posted by dbronco7sc View Post
    If a player decides to commit to a school mainly to play for a certain coach, then if the coach says he's going to be at that school to coach this incoming player, maybe he should sign a contract and have it written on paper for the player. This way if the coach decides to go elsewhere, he might have some legal fees to going to the student coming directly out of the coaches pocket (not the schools).

    .
    I actually really like this idea. Would be nice for the coach to sign off to the player and make a two way commitment. If the coach breaks it, he has a liability of some type to the player.



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    what about the kids that signed to play at the school the new coach is coming too (example West Virgina). I am sure that they have signed a recruiting class already, so if Huggy bear is allowed to take his KSU recruits with him - what happens to those kids at WVU who signed and want to go there?

    On the flip side, I think the rule should be if a kid has not enrolled into a class yet (still in high school) they should be able to switch schools with no penalty - what do they owe that school they have not even set foot on campus. However if you are already attended 1 year at that school (example Taggart) they should be made to sit out one year if they choose to transfer.



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    How about the coaches sitting out a year if

    they have more than a pre-specified time left on their guaranteed contract. Let's say that they signed for five years but decided to leave after one (disclaimer - all examples used in this explanation are fictitious), they would sit out one year as a condition of bailing on their word.

    That might lead to a series of one-to-two year contracts but at least the school knows that risks are looming. Getting signed five year contracts to support donations would have more clout. It seems to me that the coaches have all the protection and none of the penalty. Seems one-sided.

    Also, if they let the recruits transfer with the coach, they should require that all recruits go not just the top dogs.


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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    If I were K State I wouldn't relaese any of these kids from thier LOI's. Huggy did what everyone knew he would do he just did it a couple of seasons quicker than expected.
    Overall I think the system is fine the way it is, most of the time these kids are allowed to go where they want, and this is part of the decision making process. Kids and thier "advisors" take into consideration the coaches' commitment to the school, so if they gamble and get burnt tough S.
    The idea of compensation for college athletes has been brought up for this and various issues as well. I say they get plenty now and if they need a little more I am sure they are elegible for some type of loan. Enough feeling sorry for 18 year olds that have the world by the tail, they are not owed anything and should stop feeling, and being fed as much, that they are.

    End Rant, Carry on....


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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    I too can see both sides. However, where do you draw the line? A lot of players don’t necessarily go to a team for the head coach; they go because of an assistant. I believe there are a few people who are on Iowa States basketball team because we have TJ Otzelberger, because of some close ties to him in the AAU. So if TJ were to get a head coaching job in the next few years, should these players be able to transfer?

    I don’t like the idea of being able to transfer without having to sit out a year. You sign your LOI to the school not to the coach. With the coaching changes that seem to be happening year after year nowadays, the players should be well aware of this when they sign their LOI. Once they start making exceptions to this rule, you just start opening it up to more and more exceptions. Leave it how it is right now. If a player feels he should not have to sit out a year, let him appeal it. That way if something does come up like did at Baylor 4 years ago, they still might be able to transfer without sitting out for a year.



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    Re: Coaching Changes - Let players switch schools without a year out?

    It really is tough to work out a way to make it fair for every party. I got to thinking about coaching signing contracts and such in a little more detail... and that's something that I think coaches should use as a recruiting tool. If a coach knows he wants to stay somewhere for a long time (GMac I hope) he can tell a recruit... "I'm willing to write it down on paper that I will not leave this school on my own account for the next four years while you are at school here (unless I'm fired type of thing). Now, can your other offers tell you that? Here... take a look at this guy named Huggins, look what happened when some recruits came to play for him... just something you might want to look at before you make your decision to play for another school."



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