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    Saving the Big 12

    Honestly, a full blown disintegration of the Big 12 is NOT in our interest, unless only one or two teams leave. If there is a massive realignment into conferences, unless the current BCS agrees that all of it's teams are covered by a conference, we could be on the outside looking in. So what does the Big 12 need to do to stay alive? I think two things could really save it.

    1) TV NETWORK. Do it NOW! The MWC has it's own TV network, so I don't see why the Big 12 couldn't. You can't tell me that more people watch the Mountain then would watch the Big 12 Network.

    2) Add two teams. I'm thinking BYU and either Louisville or Memphis. BYU is a great football school, in a decent sized metropolitan area with a national fanbase. Every Mormon in America is a BYU fan. Louisville has had success in both major sports recently, and it seems everyone leaves the Big East when offered, so why can't we do it? Memphis wouldn't be bad either, as it gives the Big 12 a potential sleeping giant. I think being a BCS school would really open that school up. Adding another Texas school is pointless because the Big 12 owns the Texas TV market.


    In 1984, I was hospitalized for approaching perfection.

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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    We could be the next great Division I independent



    Quote Originally Posted by CloneinWDSM View Post
    LOL ya right. If we win 9 games, I'll wax my entire body.

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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    I heard a few weeks back, that the NCAA envisions 64 FBS teams eventually and they feel there are too many teams/conferences. If we see a consolidation into super conferences, there is a great chance that ISU would not be one of the 64 if that were to happen. If we're not in one of these super conferences, there would be little doubt that we wouldn't make the cut.

    This "64 team" rumor could have no legs to it, and probably doesn't though.



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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    AL:

    On point #1, I typed this in a thread a while back, but it helps explain why the Big 12 doesn't have, and problem won't have, a TV network:

    The problem is, the Big 12 Network WON'T succeed....that is why it hasn't happened yet. Texas will NEVER be able to make more money with a Big 12 TV contract than they could with a Big 10 TV contract.

    The SEC can't even make their own network fly....their "network" is, essentially, a paid add on to the ESPN package. The Big Ten Network is on basic cable, and the reason it can survive is the # of viewers in the footprint. Here are the major markets in the Big 12:

    Dallas Ft.-Worth
    Houston
    The Rest of Texas
    Kansas City
    St. Louis
    Denver

    Obviously the biggest problem with the above is the fact that, basically, the entire population of TV viewers is in the state of Texas....making it difficult to justify that network in the states of Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, etc. to the cable subscribers who don't care about college sports. The reason the BTN took off was because, geographically, the conference is so well spread out. There was immense pressure put on cable providers throughout Big Ten country to get the channel on basic cable....and eventually that pressure worked. The people in Big 12 country couldn't apply that kind of pressure for a number of reasons. Just look at the major Big Ten markets compared to the Big 12 markets:

    Minneapolis/St. Paul
    Chicago
    Detroit
    Indianapolis
    Cleveland
    Cincy
    Philly
    Pittsburgh

    The Big 10 has AT LEAST one major market in nearly every state (with the exception of Iowa), the Big 12 features 3 states without a "major" market - Nebraska, Iowa, and Oklahoma. On top of those three, Kansas is sparsely populated outside of Kansas City, and Missouri is a very rural state outside of St. Louis. The Big 12 simply lacks the "peer pressure" to get a Network on basic cable in every state throughout its footprint.

    The difference in raw viewers alone between the Big 10 and the Big 12 is staggering:

    Total population of Big 12 states: Roughly 42 million (Texas accounts for 24 Million)

    Total population of Big 10 states: Roughly 67.3 million (Population is relatively equally distributed throughout - Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan all have populations that are right at, or over, 10 million people)

    The Big 10 has roughly 25 MILLION more viewers in its footprint than the Big 12, and on top of that, Texas accounts for OVER half of he Big 12's TV viewers.

    Look at the SEC numbers:

    Total population of SEC states: 58.3 million (18.5 Million, which equals about a third of the population, resides in Florida, which has 2 ACC teams in it - FSU and Miami).

    Simply put, if the SEC can't make it work, which it hasn't yet, there is NO WAY the Big 12 will make it work. There simply aren't enough viewers in Big 12 country to support a network. On top of the low numbers, the fan bases aren't as rabid/large as Big Ten fan bases for the most part. Michigan, tOSU, and Penn State have three of the largest alumni bases in the world, which really helps support a a college network.

    To prove my point about the alumni bases/college sizes, check out this stat:

    The Big Ten has 8 of the top 15 schools in terms of total enrollment. The Big 12 has two: Texas and TAMU. Big 10 schools are much larger, on average, then the Big 12 schools.

    To your point about the MWC channel: I've seen the financial projections that show the actual conference (Mountain West) gets a very low rate per subscription. According to this source:

    Gross Revenue by Conference - Printable Version

    The MWC made $23,714,286 in 2008 on TV revenue - that is compared to the SEC and Big 10 who made over $200 Million. The Big 12 made nearly $80M in TV revenue in 2008.....basically, my short explanation is the Big 12 doesn't have enough viewers for their network to be more profitable than their current TV deal.



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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkfan View Post
    AL:

    On point #1, I typed this in a thread a while back, but it helps explain why the Big 12 doesn't have, and problem won't have, a TV network:

    The problem is, the Big 12 Network WON'T succeed....that is why it hasn't happened yet. Texas will NEVER be able to make more money with a Big 12 TV contract than they could with a Big 10 TV contract.

    The SEC can't even make their own network fly....their "network" is, essentially, a paid add on to the ESPN package. The Big Ten Network is on basic cable, and the reason it can survive is the # of viewers in the footprint. Here are the major markets in the Big 12:

    Dallas Ft.-Worth
    Houston
    The Rest of Texas
    Kansas City
    St. Louis
    Denver

    Obviously the biggest problem with the above is the fact that, basically, the entire population of TV viewers is in the state of Texas....making it difficult to justify that network in the states of Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado, etc. to the cable subscribers who don't care about college sports. The reason the BTN took off was because, geographically, the conference is so well spread out. There was immense pressure put on cable providers throughout Big Ten country to get the channel on basic cable....and eventually that pressure worked. The people in Big 12 country couldn't apply that kind of pressure for a number of reasons. Just look at the major Big Ten markets compared to the Big 12 markets:

    Minneapolis/St. Paul
    Chicago
    Detroit
    Indianapolis
    Cleveland
    Cincy
    Philly
    Pittsburgh

    The Big 10 has AT LEAST one major market in nearly every state (with the exception of Iowa), the Big 12 features 3 states without a "major" market - Nebraska, Iowa, and Oklahoma. On top of those three, Kansas is sparsely populated outside of Kansas City, and Missouri is a very rural state outside of St. Louis. The Big 12 simply lacks the "peer pressure" to get a Network on basic cable in every state throughout its footprint.

    The difference in raw viewers alone between the Big 10 and the Big 12 is staggering:

    Total population of Big 12 states: Roughly 42 million (Texas accounts for 24 Million)

    Total population of Big 10 states: Roughly 67.3 million (Population is relatively equally distributed throughout - Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan all have populations that are right at, or over, 10 million people)

    The Big 10 has roughly 25 MILLION more viewers in its footprint than the Big 12, and on top of that, Texas accounts for OVER half of he Big 12's TV viewers.

    Look at the SEC numbers:

    Total population of SEC states: 58.3 million (18.5 Million, which equals about a third of the population, resides in Florida, which has 2 ACC teams in it - FSU and Miami).

    Simply put, if the SEC can't make it work, which it hasn't yet, there is NO WAY the Big 12 will make it work. There simply aren't enough viewers in Big 12 country to support a network. On top of the low numbers, the fan bases aren't as rabid/large as Big Ten fan bases for the most part. Michigan, tOSU, and Penn State have three of the largest alumni bases in the world, which really helps support a a college network.

    To prove my point about the alumni bases/college sizes, check out this stat:

    The Big Ten has 8 of the top 15 schools in terms of total enrollment. The Big 12 has two: Texas and TAMU. Big 10 schools are much larger, on average, then the Big 12 schools.

    To your point about the MWC channel: I've seen the financial projections that show the actual conference (Mountain West) gets a very low rate per subscription. According to this source:

    Gross Revenue by Conference - Printable Version

    The MWC made $23,714,286 in 2008 on TV revenue - that is compared to the SEC and Big 10 who made over $200 Million. The Big 12 made nearly $80M in TV revenue in 2008.....basically, my short explanation is the Big 12 doesn't have enough viewers for their network to be more profitable than their current TV deal.
    Why can't it simply supplement their current TV deal, like the Big 10 Network? All the important Big 10 football games are on ABC or ESPN affiliates anyways. That's also why I'm suggesting the big 12 expand it's footprint. Pick up SLC and Louisville or Memphis. You also probably grab a lot of random viewers in both states.

    Quote Originally Posted by acgclone
    I heard a few weeks back, that the NCAA envisions 64 FBS teams eventually and they feel there are too many teams/conferences. If we see a consolidation into super conferences, there is a great chance that ISU would not be one of the 64 if that were to happen. If we're not in one of these super conferences, there would be little doubt that we wouldn't make the cut.

    This "64 team" rumor could have no legs to it, and probably doesn't though.
    ISU is too large of a school to fall through that. There are currently 60 something BCS schools, and I bet at least 15 had lower attendance than ISU in the last year. One of the biggest differences between FBS and FCS is stadium capacity.

    BCS schools w/lower attendance than ISU (2008 stats). There are 19. This is per Phil Steele's CFB guide.
    -Vanderbilt
    -Mississippi State
    -Northwestern
    -Indiana
    -Baylor
    -Kansas State
    -Boston College
    -Wake Forest
    -Miami FL
    -Georgia Tech
    -Duke
    -Oregon State
    -Stanford
    -Washington State
    -Rutgers
    -Cincinnati
    -UCONN
    -Louisville
    -Syracuse


    In 1984, I was hospitalized for approaching perfection.

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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    The B12 must get a better TV deal in next 18 months or its done IMO. Anything less than a network is gonna kill the league. I'm still hoping for a joint network between the Pac 10 and Big 12. The conferences have been talking about it which is a start at least.



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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_State View Post
    Why can't it simply supplement their current TV deal, like the Big 10 Network? All the important Big 10 football games are on ABC or ESPN affiliates anyways. That's also why I'm suggesting the big 12 expand it's footprint. Pick up SLC and Louisville or Memphis. You also probably grab a lot of random viewers in both states.



    ISU is too large of a school to fall through that. There are currently 60 something BCS schools, and I bet at least 15 had lower attendance than ISU in the last year. One of the biggest differences between FBS and FCS is stadium capacity.

    BCS schools w/lower attendance than ISU (2008 stats). There are 19. This is per Phil Steele's CFB guide.
    -Vanderbilt
    -Mississippi State
    -Northwestern
    -Indiana
    -Baylor
    -Kansas State
    -Boston College
    -Wake Forest
    -Miami FL
    -Georgia Tech
    -Duke
    -Oregon State
    -Stanford
    -Washington State
    -Rutgers
    -Cincinnati
    -UCONN
    -Louisville
    -Syracuse
    You know how restaurants make sure they keep the clientele they want? They price out everyone they don't want. The same will be true for D1 football. It won't be stadium capacity or attendance that ultimately determines who will play D1, although it will factor in. It will be determined by who can afford to play it. We have a pretty short stick on that draw.


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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Quote Originally Posted by CyForPresident View Post
    The B12 must get a better TV deal in next 18 months or its done IMO. Anything less than a network is gonna kill the league. I'm still hoping for a joint network between the Pac 10 and Big 12. The conferences have been talking about it which is a start at least.
    Awesome. This way not only can I watch Texas and OU but when they aren't on I can watch USC, UCLA, and Oregon!


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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Quote Originally Posted by CyForPresident View Post
    The B12 must get a better TV deal in next 18 months or its done IMO. Anything less than a network is gonna kill the league. I'm still hoping for a joint network between the Pac 10 and Big 12. The conferences have been talking about it which is a start at least.
    That could honestly get it done, IMO. Between the two conferences, there is a very large footprint that could get some viewership. The fact that they share a lot of network space with Vs and FSN makes this a natural transition.


    In 1984, I was hospitalized for approaching perfection.

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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Why can't we leave it the way it is?


    "Whoever said it doesn't matter if you win or lose probably lost."

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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Quote Originally Posted by ktoddcyclones View Post
    Why can't we leave it the way it is?
    Because of the slim odds of survival.

    I'd honestly prefer that, but it doesn't seem feasible. Maybe all of this message board chatter is just that, but usually where there is smoke, there's a fire.


    In 1984, I was hospitalized for approaching perfection.

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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Quote Originally Posted by ktoddcyclones View Post
    Why can't we leave it the way it is?
    Because it has become highly unstable in terms of competitiveness and revenue. I doubt if a single member of the conference is happy right now. A TV network would do wonders to improve both.



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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Quote Originally Posted by acgclone View Post
    I heard a few weeks back, that the NCAA envisions 64 FBS teams eventually and they feel there are too many teams/conferences.
    This is so warped that it makes perfect sense coming from the NCAA. So...every FBS team then gets a bowl game??? What's the point of the regular season?

    I could see wholesale defections from the NCAA if they tried to push that agenda, and the formation of a rival itercollegiate athletic association. And that wouldn't bother me one bit...


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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    Quote Originally Posted by everyyard View Post
    Awesome. This way not only can I watch Texas and OU but when they aren't on I can watch USC, UCLA, and Oregon!
    Wouldn't that make ESPN happy?



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    Re: Saving the Big 12

    I'd be curious to see just how many people would all together lose interest in college football after a major shakeup like the Big XII breaking up.



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