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  1. #1
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    This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    me thinking. I don't believe Texas "really" wants to leave the Big 12, but I do think they are positioning for a power play with the rest of the Big 12. (As others have said) Now in this scenario it seems to me the best thing for ISU and maybe the rest of the Big 12 is to wave good by.

    These threads are obviously over done, but it is the off-season.............. so with that said there are some very solid schools out there that with the right hierarchy, AD, F-ball coach, B-ball coach and some cultivating they could be great additions to any league.

    It seems like it is only a matter of time until the PAC 10 courts Utah/BYU. Those two universities are a little different in their out look and that is made all the more obvious by their lack of desire to invite Bose St in. Their inclusion would almost assuredly make them a BCS league yet they dawdle. Why?! They seem to be prideful if nothing else. Including a Fresno and Nevada would really pump them up yet they choose to hold back, what will they do if the PAC 10 comes calling (Byu/Utah and the league both) and is that what they are waiting for? Will they go?

    At this time I don't really see CU, even if they pull a CSU with them as a viable PAC 10 option as they seem a little strapped financially.

    As for the other aforementioned teams that have huge upsides..........UCF, UTEP under the right circumstances, Tulsa, maybe Sothern Miss, maybe Houston, maybe even a UAB. The SUN Belt has FAU and FIU that I think can be groomed and one of them has an enrollment of like 40K.

    The point of all this is ISU and domr other Big 12 universities are already way behind the 8-ball as you know. They can't afford to get further behind a "league" school like Tehas. ISU is already the least affluent Big 12 school and filling their stadium isn't going to be enuff under the current situation. JP has honestly did a great job of marketing, but just for comparison if they some how got a chance to go Big 10 (not saying they would) they'd jump their income over night at least 10 mill.

    All said when people get their dander up it ought to be towards Texas who seems to be positioning to take more of ISU's money. They should be forced to make that hard decision rather than caving towards their desires.

    Chad


    Last edited by cmhawks99; 02-14-2010 at 01:15 AM.

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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    ISU is already the least affluent Big 12 school and filling their stadium isn't going to be enuff under the current situation.
    Are you drunk? WTF


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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace000087 View Post
    Are you drunk? WTF
     
     
    I suppose I could be having a flashback but I haven't drank in 7 years. I'm not trying to run ISU down, in fact exactly the opposite. I think they are being hosed. I only went off the numbers I've seen posted in numerous thread links. I was shocked to find out they are 63rd in revenue generated behind every other Big 12 university. That puts them behind most every major college team and at a huge disadvantage, so no I'm not drunk or being persnickety.

    Texas making a power play would hurt them even more. I don't see how that is good for the long time term health of the Big 12 and especially the North. It seems some leagues get that. Just not Texas and the Big 12 elite.

    Chad



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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Just some numbers for 2008-2009 from
    Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool Website

    Line 14 (Grand Total Revenue)

    Big 12
    UT: $138,459,149
    OU: $81,487,835
    NU: $74,881,383
    TAMU: $72,886,100
    OSU: $71,805,825
    KU: $70,614,953
    MU: $57,778,668
    CU: $49,859,693
    BU: $48,545,254
    KSU: $47,399,903
    TT:$46,632,263
    ISU: $45,813,189
    average: $67,180,351
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average: ($21,367,162)

    Big Ten
    OSU: $119,859,607
    PSU: $95,978,243
    UMich: $95,193,030
    WI: $89,842,749
    UIowa: $79,521,143
    MSU: $75,624,811
    UMinn: $70,322,992
    IU: $60,615,528
    PU: $59,919,102
    UIllinois: $55,609,086
    NU: $48,582,384
    average: $77,369,880
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average: ($28,787,496)

    The disparity between the bottom and the average is greater in the Big Ten than it is in the Big 12.

    Each conference has a rich school at the top that skews averages (more so in the Big 12). Taking out this top team (UT and OSU):

    Big 12 average (excluding UT): $60,700,461
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average (excluding UT): ($14,887,272)
    Difference between average of bottom 4 and top 4 (excluding UT): ($28,167,634)

    Big Ten average (excluding OSU): $73,120,907
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average (excluding OSU): ($24,538,523)
    Difference between average of bottom 4 and top 4 (excluding OSU): ($33,952,266)

    If the ability to be successful in the conference across all sports is directly related to income, it would seem that joining the Big Ten would require a rather stout athletic budget. Overall, the disparity between the top and bottom in the Big Ten seems to be larger than it is in the Big 12.

    If by some miracle the Big 12 could swing a TV deal that would bring in another $8-10 million per school, the Big 12 would be looking quite even with the Big Ten.

    As for why ISU is at the bottom of the Big 12, go to Cyclones.com and look at the map showing % of ISU grads who donate to the athletic department. Not so good. It really wouldn't take that much for ISU to jump a few spots...


    Last edited by jbhtexas; 02-16-2010 at 10:44 AM.
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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    The Big 12's inexplicable tv deals have to be #1 on the agenda. I can't imagine that being botched any worse than it has been.



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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    Just some numbers for 2008-2009 from
    Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool Website

    Line 14 (Grand Total Revenue)

    Big 12
    UT: $138,459,149
    OU: $81,487,835
    NU: $74,881,383
    TAMU: $72,886,100
    OSU: $71,805,825
    KU: $70,614,953
    MU: $57,778,668
    CU: $49,859,693
    BU: $48,545,254
    KSU: $47,399,903
    TT:$46,632,263
    ISU: $45,813,189
    average: $67,180,351
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average: ($21,367,162)

    Big Ten
    OSU: $119,859,607
    PSU: $95,978,243
    UMich: $95,193,030
    WI: $89,842,749
    UIowa: $79,521,143
    MSU: $75,624,811
    UMinn: $70,322,992
    IU: $60,615,528
    PU: $59,919,102
    UIllinois: $55,609,086
    NU: $48,582,384
    average: $77,369,880
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average: ($28,787,496)

    The disparity between the bottom and the average is greater in the Big Ten than it is in the Big 12.

    Each conference has a rich school at the top that skews averages (more so in the Big 12). Taking out this top team (UT and OSU):

    Big 12 average (excluding UT): $60,700,461
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average (excluding UT): ($14,887,272)
    Difference between average of bottom 4 and top 4 (excluding UT): ($28,167,634)

    Big Ten average (excluding OSU): $73,120,907
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average (excluding OSU): ($24,538,523)
    Difference between average of bottom 4 and top 4 (excluding OSU): ($33,952,266)

    If the ability to be successful in the conference across all sports is directly related to income, it would seem that joining the Big Ten would require a rather stout athletic budget. Overall, the disparity between the top and bottom in the Big Ten seems to be larger than it is in the Big 12.

    If by some miracle the Big 12 could swing a TV deal that would bring in another $8-10 million per school, the Big 12 would be looking quite even with the Big Ten.

    As for why ISU is at the bottom of the Big 12, go to Cyclones.com and look at the map showing % of ISU grads who donate to the athletic department. Not so good. It really wouldn't take that much for ISU to jump a few spots...
    When you're doing statistical analysis, don't you have to throw the high and low to get a true representation, and in this case throw out ISU and jNU?



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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by jbhtexas View Post
    Just some numbers for 2008-2009 from
    Equity in Athletics Data Analysis Cutting Tool Website

    Big 12
    UT: $138,459,149
    OU: $81,487,835
    NU: $74,881,383
    TAMU: $72,886,100
    OSU: $71,805,825
    KU: $70,614,953
    MU: $57,778,668
    CU: $49,859,693
    BU: $48,545,254
    KSU: $47,399,903
    TT:$46,632,263
    ISU: $45,813,189
    average: $67,180,351
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average: ($21,367,162)

    Big Ten
    OSU: $119,859,607
    PSU: $95,978,243
    UMich: $95,193,030
    WI: $89,842,749
    UIowa: $79,521,143
    MSU: $75,624,811
    UMinn: $70,322,992
    IU: $60,615,528
    PU: $59,919,102
    UIllinois: $55,609,086
    NU: $48,582,384
    average: $77,369,880
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average: ($28,787,496)

    The disparity between the bottom and the average is greater in the Big Ten than it is in the Big 12.

    Each conference has a rich school at the top that skews averages (more so in the Big 12). Taking out this top team (UT and OSU):

    Big 12 average (excluding UT): $60,700,461
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average (excluding UT): ($14,887,272)
    Difference between average of bottom 4 and top 4 (excluding UT): ($28,167,634)

    Big Ten average (excluding OSU): $73,120,907
    Difference between lowest revenue team and average (excluding OSU): ($24,538,523)
    Difference between average of bottom 4 and top 4 (excluding OSU): ($33,952,266)

    If the ability to be successful in the conference across all sports is directly related to income, it would seem that joining the Big Ten would require a rather stout athletic budget. Overall, the disparity between the top and bottom in the Big Ten seems to be larger than it is in the Big 12.

    If by some miracle the Big 12 could swing a TV deal that would bring in another $8-10 million per school, the Big 12 would be looking quite even with the Big Ten.

    As for why ISU is at the bottom of the Big 12, go to Cyclones.com and look at the map showing % of ISU grads who donate to the athletic department. Not so good. It really wouldn't take that much for ISU to jump a few spots...
    You points are spot on. What I would say, though, is that those averages and difference, I don't think, matter much as where the bottom of the conference is at in the Big Ten relative to the Big 12. NW his higher than 4 of our schools and is close to five. Illinois is far ahead of Northwestern and would be above 5 teams within our conference. I would also say that the ISU, Baylor, TT and KSUs of the world have larger followings than a NW yet are at or below their revenue. When you look at ISU realistically, we will ikely be a bottom half team in terms of money for our existence. That is just how it will likely be so I would prefer to look at where that lands us in terms of a pure dollar amount and not neccesarily where we are in relation to the top. I don't see us ever being close to the top. Your point is well made and I think it speaks to correct the exagerrated opinion that the Big 10 holds more parity than the Big 12. When you look at the averages especially without the top team, as you did, the Big 12 is actually a little more even. I also think it is kind of hard to compare these because the Big Ten, geographically, is perfect for fan base. It takes up every major Midwest market along with Pennsylvania.


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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    The Big 12's inexplicable tv deals have to be #1 on the agenda. I can't imagine that being botched any worse than it has been.
    The Big 12s TV deal will never be as lucrative as the Big 10s. We simply do not have the markets they have. That being said, we still have a lot of room to improve.


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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    The Big 12's inexplicable tv deals have to be #1 on the agenda. I can't imagine that being botched any worse than it has been.
    The Big 12 gets plenty of exposure on FSN/ABC; what they need to do is scrap the "per-appearance" clause (or whatever it is), and split all regular season television revenues equally.



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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    I'm surprised why Texas would even want to leave the conference. They are competitive in about every sport and they benefit the most from the TV deal since they are always on the tube and have the biggest budget in the conferece. Can't imagine another conference is going to be able to sweeten that deal anymore right? If they went to the Big 10 they'd probably kill everyone in FB because of the talent base they recruit out of compared to the midwest teams.

    I'm starting to become a little concerned with the future of the Big 12 with some of the rumors floating around. Would hate to see the Big schools leave because I doubt the Big 12 would ever be able to replace them with a school nearly as good which would hurt the conference with bowl bids and NCAA tourney bids too.


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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by TarHeelHawk View Post
    The Big 12 gets plenty of exposure on FSN/ABC; what they need to do is scrap the "per-appearance" clause (or whatever it is), and split all regular season television revenues equally.
    But we lack the Big 10's "every single game on TV no matter how bad the two teams playing in it are". The two worst teams in the Big 10 will make be on TV, no matter what with the B10 Network. The ISU/TAMU game wasn't on ANYWHERE and they both made a bowl. The Big 12 needs a way to get every game on TV.

    The revenue sharing would be GREAT, but I think it's a harder sell. How the hell did tOSU and Michigan ever sign on to that?


    Last edited by Al_4_State; 02-16-2010 at 11:10 AM.
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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by TarHeelHawk View Post
    The Big 12 gets plenty of exposure on FSN/ABC; what they need to do is scrap the "per-appearance" clause (or whatever it is), and split all regular season television revenues equally.
    Tarheelhawk nailed it. Hardly anyone is ever going to compete with Texas financially they are the premier athletic department in the NCAA. Yet, something has to be done in the Big 12 to close the gap!



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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by TarHeelHawk View Post
    When you're doing statistical analysis, don't you have to throw the high and low to get a true representation, and in this case throw out ISU and jNU?
    ISU is well within 1 standard deviation ($25,965,245) of the Big 12 average. However, NwU is not within 1 standard deviation ($21,376,873) of the Big Ten average, so a case could be made for excluding NwU. Neither is UIllinois for that matter.


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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_State View Post
    But we lack the Big 10's "every single game on TV no matter how bad the two teams playing in it are". The two worst teams in the Big 10 will make be on TV, no matter what with the B10 Network. The ISU/TAMU game wasn't on ANYWHERE and they both made a bowl. The Big 12 needs a way to get every game on TV.

    The revenue sharing would be GREAT, but I think it's a harder sell. How the hell did tOSU and Michigan ever sign on to that?
    A better question would be why did the AD's of the Big 12 (or whoever) sign a deal where the the lower tier schools get the bottom of the barrel? The AD's at places like ISU, Baylor, K-State, etc.., had to know what they were signing up for.



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    Re: This Texas/Super conference thing has......

    I was listening to Miller and Deace's podcast about this and I think they are missing some points.

    First, in order for the current schools to back Texas joining the conference they're going to want more money to justify the additional expenses. There's going to be a big bill for each of these schools to send their teams to Texas. This may be hard to do for some schools especially for the non-revenue teams.

    Second, yes adding Texas would increase the TV revenue for the BTN, but does it add enough once you give Texas their share as well? The advertising on the BTN is still rather sparse at times and I wonder how much Fox is making off of it (or are they losing money). To go ask them to drop another guaranteed yearly amount may be tough to do in this type of economic situation.

    My point is, I just don't think that it is a slam dunk that the Texas to the Big 10 is being portrayed. Really there is the same travel situations for the Pac-10 adding Colorado. That may be magnified since there isn't the backing of a TV station as well.



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