Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........
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    Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Had started at ISU would they have had the same success as Iowa over the last 30 years. Now stay with me this isn't a rivalry thread or a thinly veiled jab. I am one who believes because 1+2 at school A = 3, it doesn't always mean the same at school B. I'm also not trashing ISU, because I truly believe in the right circumstance ANY school can become a football power. Or a minor power at least.

    My thought is this.................so many people say things like if we could recruit like USC, or if Kirk Ferentz went to Michigan he'd really win big and I don't necessarily believe that would aotomatically be the case. It "could" happen but it isn't an "automatic". There are a whole lot of things going on there.

    Just like I don't think Pete Carroll would ever sign 10 straight top 10 classes at ISU or Iowa.

    I have other thoughts but I have to take my daughter to gymnastics, what do you guys think?

    Chad


    Last edited by cmhawks99; 02-05-2010 at 05:47 PM.

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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Fry would have had success at Iowa State easily. He was that good of a coach. Maybe not to the levels he did at Iowa because of the differences in the conferences, alumni, etc. But he would have made a splash in the Big 8.



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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Quote Originally Posted by cmhawks99 View Post
    Had started at ISU would they have had the same success as Iowa over the last 30 years. Now stay with me this isn't a rivalry thread or a thinly veiled jab. I am one who believes because 1+2 at school A = 3, it doesn't always mean the same at school B. I'm also not trashing ISU, because I truly believe in the right circumstance ANY school can become a football power. Or a minor power at least.

    My thought is this.................so many people say things like if we could recruit like USC, or if Kirk Ferentz went to Michigan he'd really win big and I don't necessarily believe that would aotomatically be the case. It "could" happen but it isn't an "automatic". There are a whole lot of things going on there.

    Just like I don't think Pete Carroll would ever sign 10 straight top 10 classes at ISU or Iowa.

    I have other thoughts but I have to take my daughter to gymnastics, what do you guys think?

    Chad
    Depends on the coach. You're exactly right. Pete Carroll wouldn't win here unless his assistants were great. He needs great players. Kirk doesn't need great players. He needs coachable players. Not the same thing. It is all about fit. Sometimes there isn't a reason a coach fits, they just do.

    There are very few guys you could just throw anywahere. Meyer, Saban, and well that's about it right now. Jury is still out on Kelly.


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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    that is true what chad has said. The biggest "what if" to me is what if Barry Switzer had went to Iowa. Think about it. It makes sense. You hire a southern fried coach that had dominated over the past six years winning two NCs. Like Fry, he had a unique personality and a unique offense.



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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Consider this:

    What if Woody Hayes does not punch that Clemson kid and Earl Bruce stays at ISU and continues to put up 8 win Seasons? Does Fry get fired after 5 years because he can't beat ISU?



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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Kirk Ferentz > Hayden Fry. I truly believe he will have Iowa playing for a NC before he is done.


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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    I definately believe Hayden could have taken ISU just as far as he did with Iowa.

    Remember... Iowa was not a good football program at all before Hayden got there. Iowa and ISU were in similar shape when Hayden took over.

    Also remember that KF still has a losing record against ISU I believe? Yes, he's had a lot more success with Iowa than ISU has, but ISU has been one of his toughest games to win.



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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Quote Originally Posted by clonedude View Post
    I definately believe Hayden could have taken ISU just as far as he did with Iowa.

    Remember... Iowa was not a good football program at all before Hayden got there. Iowa and ISU were in similar shape when Hayden took over.

    Also remember that KF still has a losing record against ISU I believe? Yes, he's had a lot more success with Iowa than ISU has, but ISU has been one of his toughest games to win.
    I remember ISU being in better shape than Iowa at that time, but if things had been reversed, ISU gets Fry and Iowa gets Duncan, ISU would have flourished and Iowa would have continued to be awful.. I believe Fry was that good and Donnie was really that bad.



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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    If Earl stayed, we'd be the dominant football program in the state.



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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    I don't know what the university administration commitment to success was at Iowa when Fry arrived, but up until President Geoffrey, it's been abysmal at ISU.



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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Quote Originally Posted by CyFever View Post
    I don't know what the university administration commitment to success was at Iowa when Fry arrived, but up until President Geoffrey, it's been abysmal at ISU.
    I've always thought this would have been the biggest factor. Would Fry have been able to overcome a lack of funds preventing him from keeping the program on pace with the rest of college football.



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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Quote Originally Posted by MNCyGuy View Post
    I've always thought this would have been the biggest factor. Would Fry have been able to overcome a lack of funds preventing him from keeping the program on pace with the rest of college football.
    This. To compete, especially with the schools we play against now, we need more money. There are a few ways to go about this:

    1. find someone to donate about $100 million.

    2. (and the most likely way) start winning some games year after year and build up, over time, a fan base that is loyal and willing to donate some money.

    3. get the Big XII rule book rewritten so that all money made from bowl games is funneled to the ISU athletic department.


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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    It is an interesting hypothetical question, and ultimately I think the answer would have been no. Fry would not have had the success at ISU that he had at Iowa, and ISU would not be in the same position that Iowa is in now.

    I know the question has been posed simply for discussion, but I still think it's a mute point because I don't think that Fry would have ever taken the ISU job. I don't think he would have ever taken the job for all the reasons I don't think he would have won in Ames. There were and still are a long list of built-in disadvantages to winning at Iowa State. They are different now than they were 30 years ago, but they still exist.


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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    My feeling is that anytime a school gets a decent coach to stay for that amount of time, they will become a much stronger program.


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    Re: Philosophical football ?..If Hayden........

    Quote Originally Posted by jsmith86 View Post
    This. To compete, especially with the schools we play against now, we need more money. There are a few ways to go about this:

    1. find someone to donate about $100 million. Harrison Barnes

    2. (and the most likely way) start winning some games year after year and build up, over time, a fan base that is loyal and willing to donate some money.

    3. get the Big XII rule book rewritten so that all money made from bowl games is funneled to the ISU athletic department.



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