Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30
  1. #1
    Starter
    Points: 39,268, Level: 61
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 1,082
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    785
    Points
    39,268
    Level
    61
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 1

    Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    There is one factor, chief over all, in determining who to invite to your bowl game.

    It isn't home attendance.
    It isn't neutral site attendance.
    It isn't local population base.
    It isn't national following.
    It isn't television ratings.

    It is actual historical bowl attendance.

    When a committee is making the decision between two candidates (especially when the other team is a known poor-attendee), it comes down to the best guess at numbers.

    But that best guess starts with actual numbers in comparable bowl games. Mizzou has never played in the Houston/Texas bowl, nor the Humanitarian - so those can't be compared. ISU hasn't played in any of the same bowls as Mizzou except for the Independence and Insight Bowls. So those are the primary, maybe only, ones to compare.

    Bowl ------------ Team ------------ Opponent ----------- Attendance ----------------Year ----------------- Att. Winner
    Independence - Mizzou -------- S. Carolina ---------- 41,332 ------------------------2005
    Independence - Iowa State ----- Miami(OH)---------- 43,076 ------------------------2004 ---------------------- ISU


    Independence - Mizzou --------- Arkansas ------------49,625 ----------------------- 2003
    Independence - Iowa State ----- Alabama ------------ 45,627 ----------------------- 2001 ---------------------- Mizzou

    Insight ---------- Iowa State ----- Pittsburgh --------- 41,813 ------------------------ 2000
    Insight ---------- Mizzou --------- W. Virginia ------- 36,147 ------------------------ 1998 --------------------- ISU

    So let's see here:

    ISU holds three of the top four attendance figures overall in comparable bowls, the top slot held by Mizzou when it played the nearly local Arkansas Razorbacks in 2003.

    ISU's Miami (OH) game - an anomaly because the more popular SEC team - S. Carolina suspended itself from bowl play that year for a brawl they instigated at the end of the season - still outdrew Mizzou's S. Carolina game in the same stadium the following year. Watch the MAC championship game this weekend to get an idea of how many MAC fans exist in a good year (hint: sometimes it is as many as 15,000. Total.)

    Looking straight at the Insight, the distinction becomes clearer: overall attendance at ISU's Insight was, at the time, the 4th best in game history (dating back to the Copper Bowl). Mizzou's? Second worst in game history (again, at that time).

    So, you are on the committee. The Cy-Hawk factor is in effect. ISU's coming off a bowl drought (and a YouTube sensation - don't underestimate that.) and Mizzou isn't. Iowa snowbirds and retirees in AZ.

    The historic Insight advantage is a difference of 5,000 human beings. That is nearly $200,000 at the gate with a potential upside of additional attendees* stemming from the Cy-Hawk effect.

    *Is it unreasonable to estimate that number at 3,000+? If not, then add another $100,000 to the pot.

    And that is just on gate admission alone. Concessions account for at the very least, an additional 50%. (Based on the $37 ticket price)

    So, even ignoring the unignorable Cy-Hawk effect, the historic numbers would indicate that ISU has a potential to be worth an additional $300,000+ to the Insight Bowl, with a maximum upside that Mizzou simply can't offer.

    Seriously, we could very easily be talking about a difference of a half-million dollars or more. And I haven't even brought up the residual hotel and tourism bump.

    I understand Mizzou's lament. The scoreboard favors them, the box office favors us. Neither numbers lie, but only one set pays the electric bill.

    Something about apples-to-apples. What do I know, though? I've only ever grown corn.


    Last edited by IowaSTATCyclone; 12-04-2009 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Fixed Table for Readability

  2. #2
    Addict
    Points: 83,717, Level: 89
    Level completed: 99%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience PointsSocial
    cstrunk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Longview, TX
    Posts
    8,182
    Points
    83,717
    Level
    89
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 52
    Given: 2

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Nice post.



  3. #3
    Pro
    Points: 67,917, Level: 80
    Level completed: 92%, Points required for next Level: 133
    Overall activity: 10.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    mustangcy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Bloomfield
    Posts
    3,215
    Points
    67,917
    Level
    80
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 178
    Given: 76

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Jaime...is that you?



  4. #4
    Legend
    Points: 189,860, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 14.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    Clark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Ottumwa
    Posts
    10,082
    Points
    189,860
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 877
    Given: 107

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    one of the more impressive first posts I've seen on here.



  5. #5
    Speechless
    Points: 308,597, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 85.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    cyhiphopp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Johnston
    Posts
    17,376
    Points
    308,597
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,774
    Given: 3,975

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Not only does ISU match up well in total attendance, but the percentage of that attendance that was Cyclone fans is pretty darn good too. Just hard to calculate exact nubmers on it.

    I think the only sub-par bowl showing was for Boise and there was a good reason for that. It was a big let down at the end of the year for ISU. Boise is the worst stadium and worst location for any bowl. Even worse than Detroit because it is an armpit of a town. On top of that, they had to play BSU in literally a home game. Worst Bowl Ever!

    Other than that, I would estimate about 60% or more of the attendance for ISU's bowl games have been wearing cardinal and Gold. Especially at the Insight.



  6. #6
    All-Star
    Points: 37,679, Level: 59
    Level completed: 86%, Points required for next Level: 171
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points
    clonomaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    St Louis, MO
    Posts
    1,995
    Points
    37,679
    Level
    59
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSTATCyclone View Post
    There is one factor, chief over all, in determining who to invite to your bowl game.

    It isn't home attendance.
    It isn't neutral site attendance.
    It isn't local population base.
    It isn't national following.
    It isn't television ratings.

    It is actual historical bowl attendance.

    When a committee is making the decision between two candidates (especially when the other team is a known poor-attendee), it comes down to the best guess at numbers.

    But that best guess starts with actual numbers in comparable bowl games. Mizzou has never played in the Houston/Texas bowl, nor the Humanitarian - so those can't be compared. ISU hasn't played in any of the same bowls as Mizzou except for the Independence and Insight Bowls. So those are the primary, maybe only, ones to compare.

    Bowl ------------ Team ------------ Opponent ----------- Attendance ----------------Year ----------------- Att. Winner
    Independence - Mizzou -------- S. Carolina ---------- 41,332 ------------------------2005
    Independence - Iowa State ----- Miami(OH)---------- 43,076 ------------------------2004 ---------------------- ISU


    Independence - Mizzou --------- Arkansas ------------49,625 ----------------------- 2003
    Independence - Iowa State ----- Alabama ------------ 45,627 ----------------------- 2001 ---------------------- Mizzou

    Insight ---------- Iowa State ----- Pittsburgh --------- 41,813 ------------------------ 2000
    Insight ---------- Mizzou --------- W. Virginia ------- 36,147 ------------------------ 1998 --------------------- ISU

    So let's see here:

    ISU holds three of the top four attendance figures overall in comparable bowls, the top slot held by Mizzou when it played the nearly local Arkansas Razorbacks in 2003.

    ISU's Miami (OH) game - an anomaly because the more popular SEC team - S. Carolina suspended itself from bowl play that year for a brawl they instigated at the end of the season - still outdrew Mizzou's S. Carolina game in the same stadium the following year. Watch the MAC championship game this weekend to get an idea of how many MAC fans exist in a good year (hint: sometimes it is as many as 15,000. Total.)

    Looking straight at the Insight, the distinction becomes clearer: overall attendance at ISU's Insight was, at the time, the 4th best in game history (dating back to the Copper Bowl). Mizzou's? Second worst in game history (again, at that time).

    So, you are on the committee. The Cy-Hawk factor is in effect. ISU's coming off a bowl drought (and a YouTube sensation - don't underestimate that.) and Mizzou isn't. Iowa snowbirds and retirees in AZ.

    The historic Insight advantage is a difference of 5,000 human beings. That is nearly $200,000 at the gate with a potential upside of additional attendees* stemming from the Cy-Hawk effect.

    *Is it unreasonable to estimate that number at 3,000+? If not, then add another $100,000 to the pot.

    And that is just on gate admission alone. Concessions account for at the very least, an additional 50%. (Based on the $37 ticket price)

    So, even ignoring the unignorable Cy-Hawk effect, the historic numbers would indicate that ISU has a potential to be worth an additional $300,000+ to the Insight Bowl, with a maximum upside that Mizzou simply can't offer.

    Seriously, we could very easily be talking about a difference of a half-million dollars or more. And I haven't even brought up the residual hotel and tourism bump.

    I understand Mizzou's lament. The scoreboard favors them, the box office favors us. Neither numbers lie, but only one set pays the electric bill.

    Something about apples-to-apples. What do I know, though? I've only ever grown corn.
    great work. send it to alba


    WE ARE IOWA STATE

  7. #7
    Starter
    Points: 39,268, Level: 61
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 1,082
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    785
    Points
    39,268
    Level
    61
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 1

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Quote Originally Posted by cyhiphopp View Post
    Not only does ISU match up well in total attendance, but the percentage of that attendance that was Cyclone fans is pretty darn good too. Just hard to calculate exact nubmers on it.
    Exactly. Which is why you start from a baseline of actual attendance. Insight Bowl attendance was quite obviously 80% cyclone fans. Mizzou's Independence with Arkansas was quite obviously 70%+ local Razorbacks fans. Both Mizzou and ISU provided the majority share of fans to the other Independence games (I think).

    The upshot is this: disregarding ISU's "intangible" advantages of Bowl drought, home attendance vs. population, Estimated "real" provision of attendance portion (i.e. the above quoted situation), Cy-Hawk, snowbirds/retirees, and fan enthusiasm regarding this year's team, ISU is a better bet to deliver a better bottom line than Mizzou to the bowls in question.


    Last edited by IowaSTATCyclone; 12-04-2009 at 02:05 PM. Reason: an invisible apostrophe made me cry.

  8. #8
    Addict
    Points: 143,689, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 4.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    RayShimley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    6,052
    Points
    143,689
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 93
    Given: 30

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSTATCyclone View Post
    Exactly. Which is why you start from a baseline of actual attendance. Insight Bowl attendance was quite obviously 80% cyclone fans. Mizzou's Independence with Arkansas was quite obviously 70%+ local Razorbacks fans. Both Mizzou and ISU provided the majority share of fans to the other Independence games (I think).

    The upshot is this: disregarding ISU's "intangible" advantages of Bowl drought, home attendance vs. population, Estimated "real" provision of attendance portion (i.e. the above quoted situation), Cy-Hawk, snowbirds/retirees, and fan enthusiasm regarding this year's team, ISU is a better bet to deliver a better bottom line than Mizzou to the bowls in question.
    I was at the Indy Bowl vs. Miami (OH) and their attendance was pitiful. Their side of the stadium was almost completely empty and you could tell the camera crew was making a conscious effort to not show them on the telecast.


    Last edited by RayShimley; 12-04-2009 at 02:27 PM.

  9. #9
    All-Star
    Points: 20,492, Level: 43
    Level completed: 72%, Points required for next Level: 258
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran10000 Experience Points
    majorcyfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    1,060
    Points
    20,492
    Level
    43
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1
    Given: 75

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    As someone who went to the INSIGHT BOWL game, it might be 90% ISU fans at that game. We saw the Pitt fans holding their pregame party in the stand up phone booth just outside LEINENKUGAL'S TAVERN at the stadium site......That's just how few Pitt fans we ever saw.


    U of OWA ... HOME OF THE FERENTZ "LOW RENT" GRADUATES OF THE SCHOOL OF MORAL TURPITUDE ....THE LEADING UNIVERSITY of SELECTIVE ETHICS......PROUD TO BE ETHICS-FREE, INTEGRITY-FREE .
    NO INTEGRITY, NO "I" IN OWA
    CAN YOU TELL I LOVE THE U OF OWA

  10. #10
    Starter
    Points: 39,268, Level: 61
    Level completed: 17%, Points required for next Level: 1,082
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    785
    Points
    39,268
    Level
    61
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 12
    Given: 1

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    The Insight is having to consider a decimated, scandal-rocked Michigan State team and returnee (and terribly disappointing on the field) Minnesota* for the opponent, the Big 12 selection really has to assure delivery of as many fans as possible.

    I'm not saying that the Insight will pick the Cyclones, or even that they should from some "fairness" perspective, only that the fact of head-to-head overall bowl attendance is a very difficult object for the selection committee to ignore, especially when so many ancillary issues also favor ISU.

    ------

    *As far as the issue of Minnesota's reputation for travelling poorly goes, the jury is still out from a hard numbers perspective. They participated in the Insight twice, and helped break or approach overall attendance records both times. To my eye watching television, it looked like they were the (by far) lesser contributor of fans in both instances, but again, that's getting into the "soft" numbers, which don't help us in determining a baseline. If I'm on the selection committee, I am, first and foremost, interested in the overall attendance of a particular team's bowl games regardless of opponent or estimated travelling fan following. Only after establishing a credible pattern of decent overall attendance would I start to factor in the less reliable travelling estimates.

    [I'm not saying those travelling estimates aren't important. They most certainly are. As an outsider to the process, I'm not privy to those estimates, and even if I were, I'd take them with a grain of salt, since they are based on so many different inputs (i.e. a school's allotment sales, remote sales from the vicinity of the schools locations, walk-up estimates, overhead guesstimates based on colors in the stands...) and scrambled in an imperfect formula, versus official attendance figures, which are relatively straightforward in comparison (i.e. turnstyle counts).]



  11. #11
    Speechless
    Points: 308,597, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 85.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    cyhiphopp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Johnston
    Posts
    17,376
    Points
    308,597
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1,774
    Given: 3,975

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    I wonder if you would have to factor in the possible opponent for the Hawks in the Fiesta. I know a few ISU fans who would go to the Fiesta to root for the Hawks to pound Boise State.



  12. #12
    All-Star
    Points: 28,175, Level: 51
    Level completed: 57%, Points required for next Level: 475
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran25000 Experience Points

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    homeless
    Posts
    1,844
    Points
    28,175
    Level
    51
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1
    Given: 0

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Quote Originally Posted by IowaSTATCyclone View Post
    There is one factor, chief over all, in determining who to invite to your bowl game.

    It isn't home attendance.
    It isn't neutral site attendance.
    It isn't local population base.
    It isn't national following.
    It isn't television ratings.
    Evidently it's not the teams record or head to head competition either.

    It's all about money.

    Mizzue deserves this over ISU. They proved it on the field over the entir season and backed it up winning head to head against ISU.

    Very sad that a 6-6 team jumps them at 8-4.


    Last edited by GoShow97; 12-04-2009 at 03:11 PM.

  13. #13
    All-Star
    Points: 18,107, Level: 41
    Level completed: 7%, Points required for next Level: 843
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran10000 Experience Points
    LutherClone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Kirksville, MO
    Posts
    1,161
    Points
    18,107
    Level
    41
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Quote Originally Posted by GoShow97 View Post
    Evidently it's not the teams record or head to head competition either.

    It's all about money.

    Mizzue deserves this over ISU. They proved it on the field over the entir season and backed it up winning head to head against ISU.

    Very sad that a 6-6 team jumps them at 8-4.


    We live in a capitalistic society. Suck it up.



  14. #14
    Pro
    Points: 25,475, Level: 48
    Level completed: 93%, Points required for next Level: 75
    Overall activity: 2.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran25000 Experience Points
    Skyh13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    2,930
    Points
    25,475
    Level
    48
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 27
    Given: 3

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Quote Originally Posted by GoShow97 View Post
    Evidently it's not the teams record or head to head competition either.

    It's all about money.

    Mizzue deserves this over ISU. They proved it on the field over the entir season and backed it up winning head to head against ISU.

    Very sad that a 6-6 team jumps them at 8-4.
    Remember, if the people who decided these contracts and made all of these rules wanted it that way, then they would have made it that way. Funny thing is, they have the power to do that, but they don't.



  15. #15
    Hall-Of-Famer
    Points: 61,543, Level: 76
    Level completed: 94%, Points required for next Level: 107
    Overall activity: 16.0%
    Achievements:
    VeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience Points
    aauummm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    On the road again
    Posts
    3,884
    Points
    61,543
    Level
    76
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 125
    Given: 1,317

    Re: Head2Head Bowl Game Attendance Mizzou Vs. ISU

    Quote Originally Posted by GoShow97 View Post
    Evidently it's not the teams record or head to head competition either.

    It's all about money.

    Mizzue deserves this over ISU. They proved it on the field over the entir season and backed it up winning head to head against ISU.

    Very sad that a 6-6 team jumps them at 8-4.
    Not just one team at 6-6 jumped you, Texas A&M (6-6) got chosen before you also and so did Oklahoma (7-5)! You guys really must have ticked off the bowls!!



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • TV: Mediacom 22
  • HOOPS: Iowa State vs. Drake
  • December 20, 2014
  • 04:00 PM