i remember hearing
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  1. #1
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    i remember hearing

    that A&M, Baylor, Tech, and UT joining the Big 8 began the slow death of Big Red football. But my question is, what do those schools joining have to do with Nebraska's success or lack thereof?



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    Re: i remember hearing

    It has a little to do with it
    1. It allows the rest of the north to have atleast 1 game in texas every year thus helping recruiting.
    2. Nebraska is not the top dog in the conference any more so they don't get the national exposure that they always got by leading the Big 8 all they time. They were highly ranked and they played in New Year's day bowls when that way actually important. Thus helping with recruiting again.
    3. Speed of college football. The southern teams showed the northern teams aka big 8 schools that speed if you disiplined can cause problems for an option team. I know that Georgia tech is running the option but that's the triple option and a little tougher than the offense that nebraska was running



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    Re: i remember hearing

    its quite simple actually and hurdle covered some of the lower level issues.

    It is not just NU that the 4 texas teams hurt, it is all of the north. The biggest benefit that us north teams had back then was that we were allowed prop 8 players to commit to us and like it or not, that gave us a benefit over the SWC teams that couldnt do that. Texas has a lot of pull due to their large population and said that they would not join the big 12 if prop 8s were allowed to play, because they didnt need prop 8s due again to their population whereas the smaller population schools could use that help. Texas knew that they were setting up a conference in which they could dominate and they knew they wouldnt lose the battle of prop 8s.

    Now another thing we are seeing as a result of texas pull on the conference is the Big 12 title game for football is very likely going to only be held in Texas here in a few years even though Kansas City will also have a very nice stadium here very soon. it is only fair to have a title game on an alternating basis because we are affected by their weather conditions just like they are by ours.

    texas in particular but also the other texas schools are basically given too much pull due to population. that is all..




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    Re: i remember hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by huskerman View Post
    its quite simple actually and hurdle covered some of the lower level issues.

    It is not just NU that the 4 texas teams hurt, it is all of the north. The biggest benefit that us north teams had back then was that we were allowed prop 8 players to commit to us and like it or not, that gave us a benefit over the SWC teams that couldnt do that. Texas has a lot of pull due to their large population and said that they would not join the big 12 if prop 8s were allowed to play, because they didnt need prop 8s due again to their population whereas the smaller population schools could use that help. Texas knew that they were setting up a conference in which they could dominate and they knew they wouldnt lose the battle of prop 8s.

    Now another thing we are seeing as a result of texas pull on the conference is the Big 12 title game for football is very likely going to only be held in Texas here in a few years even though Kansas City will also have a very nice stadium here very soon. it is only fair to have a title game on an alternating basis because we are affected by their weather conditions just like they are by ours.

    texas in particular but also the other texas schools are basically given too much pull due to population. that is all..

    Could you describe what prop 8's are? I always thought that the Big 12 north became weak because when the Big 12 formed, the Texas teams were not that good and therefore a lot of recruits went other places, like the north.



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    Re: i remember hearing

    someone correct me if im wrong but i think the correct name was prop 8 athletes.

    a prop 8 athlete is a partial qualifier. so basically a lot of the athletes that used to qualify in the big 8 do not qualify to play in the big 12 due to academic standards...

    someone else may be able to fill you in a little better but that is what i know. any other questions, just ask and i might know or im sure someone will...




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    Re: i remember hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by huskerman View Post
    someone correct me if im wrong but i think the correct name was prop 8 athletes.

    a prop 8 athlete is a partial qualifier. so basically a lot of the athletes that used to qualify in the big 8 do not qualify to play in the big 12 due to academic standards...

    someone else may be able to fill you in a little better but that is what i know. any other questions, just ask and i might know or im sure someone will...
    I think it was Prop 48.....but I'm not 100% sure on that one.



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    Re: i remember hearing

    good call guys.




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    Re: i remember hearing

    I think the overwhelming factor in the decline in Nebraska football, was the fact that they lost a legenary coach (3 NC's and played for at least 1 other) to retirement.

    Then you have a coaching change, and Solich comes into a program that had seen the most dominant run in college football recent history (92-97). The fans at that point had very unrealistic expectations, expecting to win 11 games and compete for NC's EVERY YEAR.

    Frank is fired, and Callahan is hired (big mistake). Now the coaching carousel has begun.

    No team will stay where Nebraska was, changing coaches every 3 years.

    Will they ever get back to where they were? I have no idea. But having UT, A&M, TT and Baylor as a part of their conference shouldn't make a difference.



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    Re: i remember hearing

    i do think though that their win over oklahellhole revived them in the same way that black friday killed them.

    What do I mean by that? By that I mean that in 2007, people were saying that black friday in 2001 was the beginning of the end. If Nebraska wins a national title in a few years, people will point to the oky win as an ascent to glory.



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    Re: i remember hearing

    agclone makes a good point regarding the coaching situation at Nebraska. As a Nebraska fan, I will be the first to admit that our fan base got spoiled. Having been a fan since the late 1950s, I'm old enough to remember the Bill Jennings era when the Huskers were winning three and four games a year. unfortunately, too many Nebraska fans hadn't been around long enough to remember those days.

    So when Solich struggled a bit, the fans became restless. You couple that with a very arrogant AD in Steve Pedersen and you ended up with a disaster. Those close to the situation will tell you that Pedersen never liked Solich and made it his "mission" to get rid of him. He accomplished his "mission" and in doing so, destroyed a proud and storied program.

    The problem was that Pedersen already had his hand-picked coach, Dave Wannstedt, waiting in the wings, but when he pulled the plug on Solich, his guy backed out. Without Wannstedt willing to take the job, every other coach in the country looked at a situation where a 9-3 coach just got cut loose and said, "not me." And Nebraska ended up with Bill Callahan and the rest is history.

    The biggest key to Nebraska's 40-year run of success was the continuity on their coaching staff. Devaney came in 1962 and when he retired in 1972 he turned the reigns over to a trusted assistant whom he had prepared for the opportunity. Many of Devaney's assistants stayed in the program well into the Osborne tenure.

    That having been said, there is no doubt the Prop 48 situation helped Nebraska and other programs in states with less Division One talent. The mistake the former Big 8 Conference schools made was not realizing that the Texas schools needed them more than the Big 8 schools needed the Texas schools. Yes, the Texas schools provided a larger television market, but the bottom line is that aside from Texas and possibly Texas A & M, the former Southwestern Conference didn't have a lot to offer. From a football standpoint, Oklahoma and Nebraska had much larger followings than any of the Southwestern Conference schools did, including Texas (for those who don't remember, after Darrell Royal retired, Texas was a national also-ran until Mack Brown arrived on the scene). But, for some reason, the Big 8 Presidents and Athletic Directors "dropped their drawers" and allowed the Texas schools to take the reigns and run rough shod over them.

    The Big 8 schools should have simply told the remaining Texas schools the way things were going to be if they were going to enter into discussions about merging the two conferences. They needed us more than we needed them! The Southwestern Conference had suffered many "black eyes" over the years because of NCAA rules violations (remember SMU receiving the NCAA "death penalty") and with schools like Rice, Houston, TCU and SMU the conference held very little stature nationally.



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    Re: i remember hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by hurdleisu24 View Post
    It has a little to do with it
    1. It allows the rest of the north to have atleast 1 game in texas every year thus helping recruiting.
    2. Nebraska is not the top dog in the conference any more so they don't get the national exposure that they always got by leading the Big 8 all they time. They were highly ranked and they played in New Year's day bowls when that way actually important. Thus helping with recruiting again.
    3. Speed of college football. The southern teams showed the northern teams aka big 8 schools that speed if you disiplined can cause problems for an option team. I know that Georgia tech is running the option but that's the triple option and a little tougher than the offense that nebraska was running
    #3 is the biggest load ever. Nebraska won a national title in the Big XII era while averaging 45+ ppg and the 3 national titles in the 90's came over Miami (with Ray Lewis and fat boy), Florida, and Tennessee (the latter 2 being complete blowouts). Nebraska blew out a fast Texas team in the 1999 Big XII title game, and beat a fast Oklahoma defense (and national title defender) in 2001. Defensive speed had nothing to do with Nebraska entering a down cycle. The 90's offenses more than proved up to the task of beating fast defenses.

    NU just entered a down cycle, which ALL programs have suffered. Nebraska's has been much milder than most. NU has still won at least 8 games 6 times in the past 9 years. Down by Nebraska's impossible standards, but hardly a train wreck.



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    Re: i remember hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiSnob View Post
    that A&M, Baylor, Tech, and UT joining the Big 8 began the slow death of Big Red football. But my question is, what do those schools joining have to do with Nebraska's success or lack thereof?
    Mostly more competition. On any given year, kNU had only one tough conference game - OU. Occasionally someone else would field a competitive team so they sometimes end up with two tough games. They would then play patsies early and cruise to one or two loss seasons. Throwing in a few semi competent southern teams and it gets tougher.

    But it wasn't the only thing. The limitation of scholarships also has played a role because it meant that they couldn't hoard linemen.


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    Re: i remember hearing

    Quote Originally Posted by usedcarguy View Post
    Mostly more competition. On any given year, kNU had only one tough conference game - OU. Occasionally someone else would field a competitive team so they sometimes end up with two tough games. They would then play patsies early and cruise to one or two loss seasons. Throwing in a few semi competent southern teams and it gets tougher.

    But it wasn't the only thing. The limitation of scholarships also has played a role because it meant that they couldn't hoard linemen.

    Again, utter nonsense. The Big 8 always had 2 great teams, 2 or 3 good teams, and a few terrible teams. It was not two good teams and 6 crappy ones. The reason it appeared that way is because OU and NU were SO dominant that it made all of the others look poor. In any given season, OSU, KU, or ISU would win 8 games or so, then there was Colorado who has always been a very good program except for about a 10 year span prior to Mcartney's arrival in about 1984. The last 5-6 years of the Big 8 KSU was a serious player with Bill Snyder, KU had some top 10 teams in the early 90's, Mizzou was really tough under Warren Powers in the 70s and early 80s, and ISU had some 8 win seasons in the 70's.



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    Re: i remember hearing

    When Neb decided to go to the spread it ended what Nebraska was known for and it now put Nebraska in the pool with all the other teams that run the spread. Nebraska was unique now they aren't that may have hurt Nebraska more than anything



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