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  1. #46
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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Tornado man View Post
    Great post, bigguns. Rhoads knows the success of his program will depend greatly on winning the in-state recruiting battles w/Iowa, which we have lost lately (look at our record).
    He learned his style from Mac and has returned to ISU with Mac's intensity regarding talent in our own backyard.
    I'm with you - we recruit Iowa hard, and we go to bowl games. Sounds simple to me...

    I see that you didn't respond to my post (I know that it didn't fit your argument). Mac rarely took anybody from Iowa that they truly wanted. That is OK, it is what it is, Iowa State going to Shreveport, and Iowa playing at the Outback Bowl does nothing to really help us.

    Look, I would love to clean up in Iowa just as much as the next guy. The problem is that these kids remember the great 31-7 run that Ferentz had this century, and now with them being in line for another BCS bowl, that makes the job even harder.

    I do believe that in theory, Chizik had it right (his execution was AWFUL), win, and make Iowa State successful (not Shreveport or Boise successful, but Alamo and Holiday and Cotton Bowl successful), and then you have that to sell to the instate kids.

    Wehger fits in well with the power running offense that we had in place. The problem is that he saw that Iowa State wasn't successful. I really believe that the idea was that you sacrifice short term to gain long term. Kids will go to a place where they know that they will be successful.

    CPR has done a lot of the same thing (but mixed in the project Iowa kid as well), I think that he has a better feel than Chizik ever did, based on the idea that he is from here.

    I don't think that Mac recruiting is the answer, I think that we need to mix in the Iowa kid with the skill player from Texas. When we start having consistent better than Shreveport success, the kids will come. CPR seems to get that.



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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Al_4_State View Post
    MAYBE (and that's a big maybe) trade Jesse for Angerer. Sims for Sash? No way in hell. Not trying take away from him, but he would be worthless playing behind our d-line. Quarterbacks don't throw the ball directly to you if they aren't running for their lives.
    Alright, lets assume for a second you are right, that Sims is just as good in pass coverage as Sash (which he isn't), here are both of their stats through 9 games, you'll notice Sash is the better in EVERY statistical category, including tackles - Sash isn't just great in pass support, he is great against the run as well. I'm not saying Sims isn't good, he is good, but Sash is better - the NFL draft will sort that out for us eventually.

    Sims


    TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
    56 26 30 0 0 0 1 0 4 57 14.3 41 0 0

    Sash

    TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
    64 33 31 0 0 0 2 0 6 203 33.8 86 1 0



  3. #48
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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkfan View Post
    Alright, lets assume for a second you are right, that Sims is just as good in pass coverage as Sash (which he isn't), here are both of their stats through 9 games, you'll notice Sash is the better in EVERY statistical category, including tackles - Sash isn't just great in pass support, he is great against the run as well. I'm not saying Sims isn't good, he is good, but Sash is better - the NFL draft will sort that out for us eventually.

    Sims

    TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
    56 26 30 0 0 0 1 0 4 57 14.3 41 0 0

    Sash

    TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
    64 33 31 0 0 0 2 0 6 203 33.8 86 1 0
    You can have Sash.. I'll keep Sims...

    Splitting hair on those two....



  4. #49
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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobber View Post
    You can have Sash.. I'll keep Sims...

    Splitting hair on those two....

    I'll take the faster and stronger one too!



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  5. #50
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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigguns View Post
    Did he not also sign kids from Florida and Texas who were dead weight on the roster and were never going to see the field. That argument is so bogus EVERY coach signs players who aren't going to make it. We have had 1 coach in 30 years take us to a bowl game, he was also without a doubt the best instate and out of state recruiter in the same time period and you know more than him. OK..........OK. Please give it up the #'s don't lie. 5 bowl games under Mac, 0 bowl games under the 5 previous coaches.
    Disagree. Mac was the best in-state recruiter we've had (although he went overboard with Iowa kids at times), but Chizik was a better out-of-state recruiter. Chizik upgraded the talent level at ISU from where Mac left it. He wasn't a good coach, but recruiting was a different matter.

    As for Sash, McCarney (IMO) thought that he had Sash and Sandeman in the bag. Both had offers after attending the ISU camp. Iowa came in on both a few months later during the season and offered and the rest is history. By the time Mac got fired, their recruitment was long over. BTW, I don't regret missing on Sandeman...I think Lenz is already a better WR.

    For Wegher, Chizik wanted him bad and was one of the first to offer. I just don't think that he connected well with most Iowa kids. They saw through his BS.



  6. #51
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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    I think I posed this same question in a earlier thread (a couple of months ago). Let's say Sash did sign with ISU. Would he have the same impact on ISU's team that he does now with Iowa?

    Again, I think in some respects it comes down to player development. I see a lot of people stating that Iowa, by far, gets more of the best players out of Iowa. Maybe, but then, they also get some players who they develop into great players.

    Believe me, I am not an Iowa fan -- but is is mostly because of their fan base. I have no problem recognizing that Ferentz and his staff does a pretty good job.

    While I would like to see ISU get more of the top high school players, the bigger key to ISU's success is player development.



  7. #52
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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    Disagree. Mac was the best in-state recruiter we've had (although he went overboard with Iowa kids at times), but Chizik was a better out-of-state recruiter. Chizik upgraded the talent level at ISU from where Mac left it. He wasn't a good coach, but recruiting was a different matter.

    As for Sash, McCarney (IMO) thought that he had Sash and Sandeman in the bag. Both had offers after attending the ISU camp. Iowa came in on both a few months later during the season and offered and the rest is history. By the time Mac got fired, their recruitment was long over. BTW, I don't regret missing on Sandeman...I think Lenz is already a better WR.

    For Wegher, Chizik wanted him bad and was one of the first to offer. I just don't think that he connected well with most Iowa kids. They saw through his BS.
    I thought Chiziks recruiting classes were pretty unremarkable. Yeah he got a few good players but as a whole they weren't rated any better. I think Rhoads may have a better full first year than Chizik had in two.



  8. #53
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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkfan View Post
    Alright, lets assume for a second you are right, that Sims is just as good in pass coverage as Sash (which he isn't), here are both of their stats through 9 games, you'll notice Sash is the better in EVERY statistical category, including tackles - Sash isn't just great in pass support, he is great against the run as well. I'm not saying Sims isn't good, he is good, but Sash is better - the NFL draft will sort that out for us eventually.

    Sims

    TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
    56 26 30 0 0 0 1 0 4 57 14.3 41 0 0

    Sash

    TOT SOLO AST SACK STF STFY FF BK INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD
    64 33 31 0 0 0 2 0 6 203 33.8 86 1 0
    These are two different players, playing in different defenses, against completely different opponents. You can't base a comparison too much on just stats. That would be like saying Case Keenum from Houston is a much better QB than Colt McCoy because of the video game numbers he is putting up on CUSA teams. There are a lot of great players who do not put up huge stats and mediocre players that put up huge stats.
    Note, I am not saying that Sash is a bad player at all. ISU would have loved to have him. I am saying that Sims is similarly quite good and we are happy to have him as well.
    One of the original arguments is that Sash would not be doing so well without the defense he has around him. As good as Iowa's D is, it is hard to argue against that. Put Sash behind ISUs less than stellar D-Line and he would have less opportunities with QB's under pressure and more situations where the opposing offense could pick apart the secondary. I think Sims could make a lot of the plays that Sash has on Iowas D. As it is now, Sash can sit back in coverage with a solid D around him and wait for the opposing QB to make a mistake, which he is very good at.
    Sash may have the edge in coverage awareness, but I think Sims has more overall athletic ability. If you put Sash on an overall less talented D, I don't think he shines nearly as much.


    The point being, you like your guy, we like ours.



  9. #54
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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrocks View Post
    I think I posed this same question in a earlier thread (a couple of months ago). Let's say Sash did sign with ISU. Would he have the same impact on ISU's team that he does now with Iowa?

    Again, I think in some respects it comes down to player development. I see a lot of people stating that Iowa, by far, gets more of the best players out of Iowa. Maybe, but then, they also get some players who they develop into great players.

    Believe me, I am not an Iowa fan -- but is is mostly because of their fan base. I have no problem recognizing that Ferentz and his staff does a pretty good job.

    While I would like to see ISU get more of the top high school players, the bigger key to ISU's success is player development.
    The other thing I wonder about is would those Iowa players show as well in the speed enviorment that the Big 12 is?



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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Cy1969 View Post
    I see that you didn't respond to my post (I know that it didn't fit your argument). Mac rarely took anybody from Iowa that they truly wanted.
    Disagree. There were plenty of kids that iowa wanted and ISU got. Arnaud, Blythe, Scales, Brant, Zehr, Schrage, Moses, Lichtenburg, James Smith, Barkema. Iowa usually wins the recruiting battle, especially lately with ISU falling off and iowa doing well, but ISU has beaten them on some kids and will again.



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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobber View Post
    I thought Chiziks recruiting classes were pretty unremarkable. Yeah he got a few good players but as a whole they weren't rated any better. I think Rhoads may have a better full first year than Chizik had in two.
    Well, I'll say that I think you're wrong, but I hope you're right. I don't care how they're rated, Chizik brought in some good players.



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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobber View Post
    The other thing I wonder about is would those Iowa players show as well in the speed enviorment that the Big 12 is?
    Excellent point, Bobber. I never thought about that.



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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrocks View Post
    I think I posed this same question in a earlier thread (a couple of months ago). Let's say Sash did sign with ISU. Would he have the same impact on ISU's team that he does now with Iowa?

    Again, I think in some respects it comes down to player development. I see a lot of people stating that Iowa, by far, gets more of the best players out of Iowa. Maybe, but then, they also get some players who they develop into great players.

    Believe me, I am not an Iowa fan -- but is is mostly because of their fan base. I have no problem recognizing that Ferentz and his staff does a pretty good job.

    While I would like to see ISU get more of the top high school players, the bigger key to ISU's success is player development.
    You make a very good point. There haven't been a bevy of highly touted In-state kids that have all rushed to Iowa. If there were five 4* star kids every year from the state of Iowa and the Hawks got them all, that would be a different matter. As it stands, the Hawks usually get a good number of the better recruits from Iowa, however the Hawks best in-state players have been the ones they have developed from 2 and 3 star players. This is a result of a stable and consistently good coaching staff, somthing that ISU has lacked.

    CPR is giving the state of Iowa due diligence. He is making the rounds and re-establishing relationships with Iowa HS programs. Chizik may have made a push for some of the better Iowa recruits over the past few years, but I think he failed at establishing real ties with Iowa HS programs. He basically ignored Iowa schools unless they happened to have a kid he thought was worth an offer. I don't think this went unnoticed with HS coaches either. Recruits trust their coaches a lot and if Chizik had made more of an effort to work on his Iowa recruiting ties, it may have helped with more instate recruits. Chizik was never really serious about staying in Iowa long term and it seems like he focused as much time as he could getting recruiting ties to the southern states which would make him seem more valuable to a future employer (in this case Auburn). Iowa recruiting ties do you no good when you move on to the SEC.

    As far as CPR goes, he is doing it right. He is going to get the Iowa kids that he can and if he misses on them, it wont be because he had a bad repuatation with the HS coach. CPR also has hired a staff with huge connections in Texas/Louisianna (Herman, Pope, Wells),
    The Midwest and Ohio/Pennsysvania (Messingham, Bleil, Bray),
    California/West Coast (Ash),
    and Florida/Deep south (the Burnhams).

    It looks like everyone on the staff is doing their job very well so far, both recruiting and on the field.



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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobber View Post
    I thought Chiziks recruiting classes were pretty unremarkable. Yeah he got a few good players but as a whole they weren't rated any better. I think Rhoads may have a better full first year than Chizik had in two.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frak View Post
    Well, I'll say that I think you're wrong, but I hope you're right. I don't care how they're rated, Chizik brought in some good players.
    Chizik did bring in some good players, but in my opinion he should have been able to bring in more. I think Chizik was under the impression that he could get great recruits based on his reputation and name alone. He tried to get in on some really good players right away and make a good first impression, only to see them sign with more powerful schools. Chizik then had to go into fall bakc mode and work on his second choices and JuCos. His first year he scrambled to keep some of Macs recruits and get any players he could to fill out the class. Some fo the guys didn't pan out. Remember, Chizik only had one full recruiting year. His 2008 class saw him get a better overall class, even if the star ratings didn't show it. A lot of those guys are playing significant minutes or starting already for us.

    Chizik was stubborn to a fault and did a horrible job of trying to play with the recruits he inherited from Mac. I think he felt certain that he could only with with a team full of his recruits (mostly from out of state).
    CPR has been able to take the players from Mac and Chizik and win as many (soon to be more) games than Chizik did in 2 years. A few more years of solid recruiting by CPR and his staff, and we will see even better results on the field and in the recruiting rankings. ISU may never have a top 15 class, but I think this staff can find a lot of 3 star players who end up playing as good or better than 4 star players.



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    Re: Recruiting Iowans

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobber View Post
    The other thing I wonder about is would those Iowa players show as well in the speed enviorment that the Big 12 is?
    I think you are confusing this Iowa's defense with the previous Iowa defenses.

    They were much faster than Arizona was and the announcers couldn't believe it.



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