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  1. #1
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    Interesting observation (long)

    As a Clone fan and grad, I've been following ISU MBB for over 25 years so feel qualified to make the following observation. The face of ISU BB has changed under Mac and I feel that it is definitely for the better. The change? A focus on play in the paint.

    Historically, ISU has been a perimeter and SF oriented team. We have produced a large number of execellent SF's and lots of good and even great guards over the years. Many of those went on to play and succeed in the NBA. Post players? Not many. Even the ones that stood out for us never panned out at the next level (Meyer, Homan, Vroman (jury still out), Fizer (too small to play PF in the NBA), Cato, etc). While I haven't looked up the stats, I would venture to say that Hornacek scored more points than every ISU post player COMBINED over the last 25 years.

    So here goes: with the turnaround in Jiri, Thompson in the wings, Brackins and possibly Dinc coming in next year we could, on the very same roster, have the best collection of post players ISU has ever had. WOW!

    And that is not counting 1 very good forward in Clark and another in Wes Johnson who has the potential to be great and I mean really great, like in NBA 1st round pick great.

    Anyway, that is my observation; we have the best collection of post play talent we have ever had and that my friends is NOT an ISU tradition.



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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Kelvin Cato wasn't tooo bad



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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by GM4ISU View Post
    Kelvin Cato wasn't tooo bad
    Scary thing is he only played a year an a half. I remember that first game he played after becoming eligible. He had like 6 blocks in 20 minutes, it was nuts.


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  4. #4
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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by GM4ISU View Post
    Kelvin Cato wasn't tooo bad
    neither was Victor Alexander

    p.s. i've seen a lot longer observations on this site


    Last edited by ce1; 02-17-2007 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    I really doubt Dinc will be a Clone next year.



  6. #6
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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    homan and vroman combined where much better than who we have now. Hard to talk about Brackins when he hasn't stepped on the court.

    Let's not forget Loren Meyer who was drafted in the NBA. This is not even close to the best post players we have had



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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Scary thing is he only played a year an a half. I remember that first game he played after becoming eligible. He had like 6 blocks in 20 minutes, it was nuts.
    I'll never forget all the times that Jacy Halloway would just toss up a pass from half court and Cato would be on the recieving and and throw it down for a highlight reel dunk! That team was a lot of fun to watch.



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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Best collection of Post talent?

    Umm no. Gotta have a star first. Jiri is solid, but when he gets on the cover of SI... then maybe.

    How about Fizer, Rancik, Shirley? Im sure there are more.



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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by ajk4st8 View Post
    Best collection of Post talent?

    Umm no. Gotta have a star first. Jiri is solid, but when he gets on the cover of SI... then maybe.

    How about Fizer, Rancik, Shirley? Im sure there are more.
    I'll go with this lineup as the best post player collection ISU has ever had. Two NBA players, this was a team that came very close to the Natl championship.

    I sure hope ISU can put together a group as good as this one. It'll be tough...



  10. #10
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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    OK newbies, how long have YOU been watching ISU hoops? On Cato, he was an idiot. He was either blocking shots or in foul trouble. I would like someone to look up his stats. In a 40 minute game, how many was he actually on the court (on average). And as someone noted he played less than 2 years. Is this the best example of a post player that ISU has produced. Let me remind those who can't remember: Cato couldn't dribble or pass or shoot; if it wasn't a dunk or a block, he was worthless and spent almost as time on the bench due to foul trouble as he spent on the court. Anyone who claims that Cato was the best post player we have had, just proves my point. We haven't had any.

    For the Fizer, Rancik, Shirley crowd I again ask, what did Rancik do post ISU? For that matter, what where his numbers while AT ISU? Not very good. Ditto Shirley. Then I ask, for a number 4 pick in the draft has there EVER been such a dud in the NBA as Fizer? And I don't mean to knock on Marcus as I consider him to be one of the best to ever play at ISU. His high draft pick was a bit of a mistake as he didn't have the size to play PF in the NBA and didn't have the skills to play SF. It's not his fault that the folks in the NBA didn't recognize this. Even given his situation Marcus is probably the best post player from ISU.

    Sorry to be so negative, but I hate it when people refuse to recognize the obvious. We have NEVER had good post players and it looks like that is changing ... which was the whole point of my original post. Duh.



  11. #11
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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Do you really think Cato was an idiot? May I remind you he anchored the middle of a team that won the only big 8 tourney trophy we own.



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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    when we are forced to play Jiri as our main big, we are no where near any class of previously middles. No offense to him, he's trying hard, but this is not optimum, and I'd guess that if Homan, Vroman, Meyer, Alexander, Cato or Fizer were around Jiri would never be listed as our "center".

    You can't count Brakins (who already has knee issues), and Dinc (who isn't even commited yet) and Thompson is anything but proven. In those 25 years you talked about, how many times did we have a "big" recruit that either A) didn't ever get to campus or B) never panned out.

    History will tell, but give a guy like Cato a little respect for his accomplishments.



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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickybaby View Post
    OK newbies, how long have YOU been watching ISU hoops? On Cato, he was an idiot. He was either blocking shots or in foul trouble. I would like someone to look up his stats. In a 40 minute game, how many was he actually on the court (on average). And as someone noted he played less than 2 years. Is this the best example of a post player that ISU has produced. Let me remind those who can't remember: Cato couldn't dribble or pass or shoot; if it wasn't a dunk or a block, he was worthless and spent almost as time on the bench due to foul trouble as he spent on the court. Anyone who claims that Cato was the best post player we have had, just proves my point. We haven't had any.

    For the Fizer, Rancik, Shirley crowd I again ask, what did Rancik do post ISU? For that matter, what where his numbers while AT ISU? Not very good. Ditto Shirley. Then I ask, for a number 4 pick in the draft has there EVER been such a dud in the NBA as Fizer? And I don't mean to knock on Marcus as I consider him to be one of the best to ever play at ISU. His high draft pick was a bit of a mistake as he didn't have the size to play PF in the NBA and didn't have the skills to play SF. It's not his fault that the folks in the NBA didn't recognize this. Even given his situation Marcus is probably the best post player from ISU.

    Sorry to be so negative, but I hate it when people refuse to recognize the obvious. We have NEVER had good post players and it looks like that is changing ... which was the whole point of my original post. Duh.
    Don't be such a hater on the younger crowd. Your assessment of Cato is probably legit, but you got to keep in mind that he only a few years experience of organized ball before he set foot on campus. Raw talent wise he was the best. Fizer was dominating but also had a supporting cast. My vote for best offensive post player is Big Vic. Try to come up with a college player that had a better combination of a big arse and soft touch.



  14. #14
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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickybaby View Post
    Sorry to be so negative, but I hate it when people refuse to recognize the obvious. We have NEVER had good post players and it looks like that is changing ... which was the whole point of my original post. Duh.
    What's obvious is that you seem to be rather misinformed for someone who's been watching ISU MBB for 25 years. I've been watching ISU MBB since the 1980's. To claim that ISU has NEVER had good post players implies that Victor Alexander was not a good post player. To claim that VA was not a good post player is completely idiotic, and destroys any credibility that you might have had on the issue.

    Look up VA's stats. He was First Team Big 8 in 1989 and 1991. Over his last 3 years at ISU, he averaged 21 PPG, almost 9 rebounds per game, and shot over 60% from the field. What more do you want???

    Victor Alexander could have done much better in the NBA, but he seemed to have somewhat of a motivation problem, and he also got stuck playing under Don Nelson, who was running a scheme that was not really compatible with VA's strengths.



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    Re: Interesting observation (long)

    Cato was raw, but it was his rawness that in a way made him good. He had this primal ability and desire to defend the hoop, something I think we sorely need now! He was foul prone, but when he was in there, he changed the game, in that everyone thought twice about challenging him. That made teams more perimeter-oriented and kept is in many games. Furthermore, his becoming eligible after transferring seemed to be the last piece that team needed to be successful.


    Forever trying to find a cure for the Dunning-Kruger Effect.

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