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    ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Maybe too late, but since it's already derailed a couple threads here goes. What is it reasonable to expect the athletic department to do in the name of success?



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    I think you're seeing it right now.


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    Dosry, You know what? I think I'll agree with you :)

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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by MNCyGuy View Post
    Maybe too late, but since it's already derailed a couple threads here goes. What is it reasonable to expect the athletic department to do in the name of success?
    Keep the arrest count below iowa's in comparative sports....



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    It's reasonable to expect them to attempt to follow the rules as closely as possible. With that as a basis, they need to hire good people, fundraise like the dickens and make the facilities as comparable as possible to other Big 12 schools.



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    I think as ISU fans we need to quit with our obsession with Iowa, and worry about ourselves. We need to hire the best fit FOR OUR SCHOOL in all of our sports. Our facilities need to be as good or better than the schools we are competing against, not Texas and OU but the likes of KSU, NU, Mizzou and KU.
    The athletic department also needs to come through on their promises. People will buy and support hope for awhile, but if that hope never becomes success all you are going to do is push people farther away and upset them more.



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    It's reasonable to expect the Athletics Dept. to do their jobs, and they are. I haven't seen any compliance or elgibility issues. I can't think of any improper use of funds. Moreover, I don't see certain sports that are being outright neglected.

    We have a well run athletics department. Turn your focus to the athletes & coaches.



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Maybe this isn't what you were asking about; if not, I'll delete it or a mod can:

    In football, there are just too many obstacles to overcome (tradition, location, facilities, conference, etc.) to expect a constant winner. I think a reasonable, long-run, expectation is 1) beating Iowa every 2-3 years, 2) winning the North every 8-12 years, and 3) playing in a bowl every 3-4 years.

    In basketball, there's a little more there, a nice arena, a new practice facility, and some tradition. I think a reasonable, long-run, expectation is 1) Be over .500 versus top 25 teams at home, 2) Get in the top 4 of the Big 12 every 3-5 years, 3) Get in the NCAAs every 2-3 years, and the NIT when not in the big dance, and 4) Finish in the Top 25 every 5-8 years.

    Alright fellow Clones, tell me where I screwed up.



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    I think as ISU fans we need to quit with our obsession with Iowa, and worry about ourselves. We need to hire the best fit FOR OUR SCHOOL in all of our sports. Our facilities need to be as good or better than the schools we are competing against, not Texas and OU but the likes of KSU, NU, Mizzou and KU.
    The athletic department also needs to come through on their promises. People will buy and support hope for awhile, but if that hope never becomes success all you are going to do is push people farther away and upset them more.
    The athletic department has never promised wins.

    And, as for "selling hope" what is the alternative? Not selling anything?
    Is it unreasonable to "sell hope" when that's all there is to sell?

    Pollard has never promised bowl games or tournament appearances. Nor has Chizik. Nor has Rhoads. Nor has GMac.

    We all HOPE to have those things, but there have been no promises broken (except by Chizik). Fans sell themselves on hope. All the athletic department has done is given them reason to do so.

    Maybe hope is a somewhat new feeling for ISU fans, but I'd rather have hope than resign myself to failure.


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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by kucyclone View Post
    Maybe this isn't what you were asking about; if not, I'll delete it or a mod can:

    In football, there are just too many obstacles to overcome (tradition, location, facilities, conference, etc.) to expect a constant winner. I think a reasonable, long-run, expectation is 1) beating Iowa every 2-3 years, 2) winning the North every 8-12 years, and 3) playing in a bowl every 3-4 years.

    In basketball, there's a little more there, a nice arena, a new practice facility, and some tradition. I think a reasonable, long-run, expectation is 1) Be over .500 versus top 25 teams at home, 2) Get in the top 4 of the Big 12 every 3-5 years, 3) Get in the NCAAs every 2-3 years, and the NIT when not in the big dance, and 4) Finish in the Top 25 every 5-8 years.

    Alright fellow Clones, tell me where I screwed up.
    The KU in your handle...

    Solid post. I agree with the expectations. I think we can do a little better than ever 3-4 years in fb, especially with the number of bowls available. All it takes is a winning record darn-near. I would hope we could maintain consistent winning, better than every 3-4 years. And I would like the think that winning a division crown could be closer to ever 5-7 years.

    As for BBall, I'd like to see a "finish in the top 25" about once every class that goes through the program.



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by kucyclone View Post
    Maybe this isn't what you were asking about; if not, I'll delete it or a mod can:

    In football, there are just too many obstacles to overcome (tradition, location, facilities, conference, etc.) to expect a constant winner. I think a reasonable, long-run, expectation is 1) beating Iowa every 2-3 years, 2) winning the North every 8-12 years, and 3) playing in a bowl every 3-4 years.

    In basketball, there's a little more there, a nice arena, a new practice facility, and some tradition. I think a reasonable, long-run, expectation is 1) Be over .500 versus top 25 teams at home, 2) Get in the top 4 of the Big 12 every 3-5 years, 3) Get in the NCAAs every 2-3 years, and the NIT when not in the big dance, and 4) Finish in the Top 25 every 5-8 years.

    Alright fellow Clones, tell me where I screwed up.
    I agree with this for the most part, except for the bowl games. With as many bowls as there are anymore, I would hope that we can be in one every other year. It only takes a winning record to get in. I know it hasn't happened for a few years, but 3 bowls per decade is a bit on the low side for me.



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Perhaps I misundersand the question, but it's what is allowable in order to achieve success (how far can we cheat or lose our moral compass), and not what is our definition of success.

    Right?



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by kucyclone View Post
    Maybe this isn't what you were asking about; if not, I'll delete it or a mod can:

    In football, there are just too many obstacles to overcome (tradition, location, facilities, conference, etc.) to expect a constant winner. I think a reasonable, long-run, expectation is 1) beating Iowa every 2-3 years, 2) winning the North every 8-12 years, and 3) playing in a bowl every 3-4 years.

    In basketball, there's a little more there, a nice arena, a new practice facility, and some tradition. I think a reasonable, long-run, expectation is 1) Be over .500 versus top 25 teams at home, 2) Get in the top 4 of the Big 12 every 3-5 years, 3) Get in the NCAAs every 2-3 years, and the NIT when not in the big dance, and 4) Finish in the Top 25 every 5-8 years.

    Alright fellow Clones, tell me where I screwed up.
    I think these are pretty close. Competing for the North every 3-5 years is my thought...about once a recruiting class. Bowl games close to every year. Getting to 6 wins doesn't mean what it used to with the number of bowls and the ability to count the FCS (UNI, NDST, SDST) wins every year. I say competing for the North because I'm not sure how many people would be upset with going 8-4 or 9-3 and losing the North Championship on a tie breaker..



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by jumbopackage View Post
    The athletic department has never promised wins.

    And, as for "selling hope" what is the alternative? Not selling anything?
    Is it unreasonable to "sell hope" when that's all there is to sell?

    Pollard has never promised bowl games or tournament appearances. Nor has Chizik. Nor has Rhoads. Nor has GMac.

    We all HOPE to have those things, but there have been no promises broken (except by Chizik). Fans sell themselves on hope. All the athletic department has done is given them reason to do so.

    Maybe hope is a somewhat new feeling for ISU fans, but I'd rather have hope than resign myself to failure.
    How you still have hope is beyond me.
    And are you saying that we shouldn't expect success out of our athletic department? Than why do we even play the games? Why don't we just give all of that money to engineering and just play club sports?



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyMac View Post
    Perhaps I misundersand the question, but it's what is allowable in order to achieve success (how far can we cheat or lose our moral compass), and not what is our definition of success.

    Right?
    That was the idea, yea, although I think some would have you believe they are one and the same, so whatever.



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    Re: ISU Athletics: What is reasonable?

    Quote Originally Posted by thatguy View Post
    How you still have hope is beyond me.
    And are you saying that we shouldn't expect success out of our athletic department? Than why do we even play the games? Why don't we just give all of that money to engineering and just play club sports?
    I do expect success out of our athletic department, and I think it has been very successful.

    My definition of success is different than a lot of folks though. I don't just look at the wins and losses. I look at the program and department as a whole. We, from all appearances, run a clean athletic department. We are financially fairly healthy. We have great coaching staff across the board that does well by the student athletes that play for them.

    That's what I ask for, more than anything else.

    Is it nice to win? Sure. But that's not the point of college athletics, nor is it really the point of an athletic department at a university.

    Now, is it necessary to win to keep the department healthy? Possibly, but wins and losses are far more important to fans than they are to an athletic department.

    I'd gladly take 4 more years of what we have at the moment than deal with the mess left over from the Criner era, for instance.


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