MLB: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Ames, IA
    Posts
    3,273
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Hey all,

    I was listening to Perrault and Miller on the radio last night. They were discussing baseball, Sammy Sosa, and the hall of fame. They got in an argument when they discussed Barry Bonds. Miller seemed to think Bonds would eventually get into the HOF since he was a HOF player prior to using steriods. Perrault, said that his numbers were not good enough.

    Now, for the purposes of this argument, lets say Bonds starting taking steriods after the 1998 season.

    From 1986-1998, he had been to 8 All Star Games, Got 3 MVPs, and 8 Gold Gloves.

    Also, from 1986-1998, he had hit 411 HR, 1216 RBI, Stole 445 Bases, and had a .290 Career Average.

    I know people hate Bonds, but lets say his career was cut short after 1998. Would he have made it into the HOF? I think he would, not just from the stats, but during the era the debate was him or Griffey for best player in the sport.

    I just couldn't believe Matt Perrault is really can't see that. But then again, he believes Jason Varitek is HOF..



  2. #2
    Speechless
    Points: 880,636, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 58.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteranCreated Album pictures50000 Experience PointsOverdrive
    CycloneErik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Jamerica
    Posts
    57,804
    Points
    880,636
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 3,025
    Given: 2,414

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    I would like to think he would. The man was simply incredible.

    He was a terrible post-season player in the years you've cited, and that may be something the voters would have held against him.


    Since we are an elite team now, let's go get that One Cyclone Moment.
    Make this one for the ages!




    http://rememberingdoria.wordpress.com/

  3. #3
    Addict
    Points: 69,389, Level: 81
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 361
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    TarHeelHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    W. Des Moines
    Posts
    8,615
    Points
    69,389
    Level
    81
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1
    Given: 0

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Matt Perrault taking the contrarian position? No way!!!!!



  4. #4
    Pro
    Points: 90,446, Level: 93
    Level completed: 58%, Points required for next Level: 804
    Overall activity: 1.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    CylentButDeadly's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Windsor Heights, IA
    Posts
    3,402
    Points
    90,446
    Level
    93
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 5
    Given: 5

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Yeah, Perault is dead wrong on this one. If you take everything before '98-'99, Bonds was easily a shoe-in for the HOF. He was the second guy ever to do 40-40, and he presumably did it without PEDs. He struggled in the postseason, but there are a handful of HOFs who never even made the postseason, Ernie Banks probably being the most noteworthy.

    I'm trying to find it, but there was a stat guy that projected Bonds career #'s using the '97 season as his last clean season and he came up with Bonds hitting for more than 500HR, 400SB, 1400RBI, etc. Easily HOF #s.



  5. #5
    Addict
    Points: 143,714, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    RayShimley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    6,053
    Points
    143,714
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 94
    Given: 30

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Quote Originally Posted by mplscyclone View Post
    Hey all,

    I was listening to Perrault and Miller on the radio last night. They were discussing baseball, Sammy Sosa, and the hall of fame. They got in an argument when they discussed Barry Bonds. Miller seemed to think Bonds would eventually get into the HOF since he was a HOF player prior to using steriods. Perrault, said that his numbers were not good enough.

    Now, for the purposes of this argument, lets say Bonds starting taking steriods after the 1998 season.

    From 1986-1998, he had been to 8 All Star Games, Got 3 MVPs, and 8 Gold Gloves.

    Also, from 1986-1998, he had hit 411 HR, 1216 RBI, Stole 445 Bases, and had a .290 Career Average.

    I know people hate Bonds, but lets say his career was cut short after 1998. Would he have made it into the HOF? I think he would, not just from the stats, but during the era the debate was him or Griffey for best player in the sport.

    I just couldn't believe Matt Perrault is really can't see that. But then again, he believes Jason Varitek is HOF..
    >75% of the voters aren't going to care how good Bond's stats were "before" he took steroids. By taking steroids, he became the poster boy for everything that was wrong with baseball during the "steroid era" and he managed to tarnish the two most hallowed MLB records along the way. No one is going to forgive him (and Sosa + McGuire) for cheating Maris and Aaron out of their records.



  6. #6
    Addict
    Points: 69,389, Level: 81
    Level completed: 79%, Points required for next Level: 361
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    TarHeelHawk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    W. Des Moines
    Posts
    8,615
    Points
    69,389
    Level
    81
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 1
    Given: 0

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Quote Originally Posted by RayShimley View Post
    >75% of the voters aren't going to care how good Bond's stats were "before" he took steroids. By taking steroids, he became the poster boy for everything that was wrong with baseball during the "steroid era" and he managed to tarnish the two most hallowed MLB records along the way. No one is going to forgive him (and Sosa + McGuire) for cheating Maris and Aaron out of their records.
    Bonds didn't tarnish those records any more or less than McGwire and Sosa did in 1998. The difference is that Bonds is widely perceived to be an *******, while McGwire and Sosa were very popular among the fans, and got along with the media.

    If Bonds tarnished the single season home run record, and all time record, then so did McGwire when he broke it in 1998, and I believe McGwire also has the rookie record for home runs.

    The difference is perception.



  7. #7
    Speechless
    Points: 271,831, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 7.0%
    Achievements:
    Veteran50000 Experience Points
    isuno1fan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Clive, Iowa
    Posts
    17,538
    Points
    271,831
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 166
    Given: 38

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    This isn't even a discussion. Bonds makes it first ballot with or without PED.



  8. #8
    Addict
    Points: 143,714, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    RayShimley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    6,053
    Points
    143,714
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 94
    Given: 30

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Quote Originally Posted by TarHeelHawk View Post
    Bonds didn't tarnish those records any more or less than McGwire and Sosa did in 1998. The difference is that Bonds is widely perceived to be an *******, while McGwire and Sosa were very popular among the fans, and got along with the media.

    If Bonds tarnished the single season home run record, and all time record, then so did McGwire when he broke it in 1998, and I believe McGwire also has the rookie record for home runs.

    The difference is perception.
    I mentioned them both and I don't think either will get into the HOF. Bonds will be eligible for that first ballot in 2012, a lot of stuff could happen between now and then. I don't think he's as much a lock as you think, HOF induction is not an objectice process and there won't be much of an outcry for Bonds outside of SF.



  9. #9
    Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Ames, IA
    Posts
    3,273
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Quote Originally Posted by RayShimley View Post
    I mentioned them both and I don't think either will get into the HOF. Bonds will be eligible for that first ballot in 2012, a lot of stuff could happen between now and then. I don't think he's as much a lock as you think, HOF induction is not an objectice process and there won't be much of an outcry for Bonds outside of SF.
    I'm not saying does he get in now.

    I'm saying if you go back in time, and he has some career ending injury in 1998, does he get into the HOF.

    The debate was that Miller said Bonds was a HOF player before he starting using PEDs, while Perrault said that Bonds was a HOF only AFTER he started using PEDs...

    The debate isn't should he be voted in now.



  10. #10
    All-Star egami's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    iowa
    Posts
    1,944
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2
    Given: 0

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Quote Originally Posted by mplscyclone View Post
    Hey all,

    I was listening to Perrault and Miller on the radio last night. They were discussing baseball, Sammy Sosa, and the hall of fame. They got in an argument when they discussed Barry Bonds. Miller seemed to think Bonds would eventually get into the HOF since he was a HOF player prior to using steriods. Perrault, said that his numbers were not good enough.

    Now, for the purposes of this argument, lets say Bonds starting taking steriods after the 1998 season.

    From 1986-1998, he had been to 8 All Star Games, Got 3 MVPs, and 8 Gold Gloves.

    Also, from 1986-1998, he had hit 411 HR, 1216 RBI, Stole 445 Bases, and had a .290 Career Average.

    I know people hate Bonds, but lets say his career was cut short after 1998. Would he have made it into the HOF? I think he would, not just from the stats, but during the era the debate was him or Griffey for best player in the sport.

    I just couldn't believe Matt Perrault is really can't see that. But then again, he believes Jason Varitek is HOF..
    Matt's been doing a much better job here than in Omaha imo. I was huge critic of his over there, so I've actually grown to like him more.

    That said, this is the exact type of thing that drives me nuts about him. And, not only will he take the contrarian position for the sake of doing so, when he digs in there is NO backing down.

    But this is just an asinine position...lets face it, it's not like its terribly hard to get into the HOF. There are some guys with some pretty marginal numbers in there.



  11. #11
    Addict
    Points: 143,714, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 0%
    Achievements:
    SocialVeteran50000 Experience Points
    RayShimley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Montreal, QC
    Posts
    6,053
    Points
    143,714
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 94
    Given: 30

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Quote Originally Posted by mplscyclone View Post
    I'm not saying does he get in now.

    I'm saying if you go back in time, and he has some career ending injury in 1998, does he get into the HOF.

    The debate was that Miller said Bonds was a HOF player before he starting using PEDs, while Perrault said that Bonds was a HOF only AFTER he started using PEDs...

    The debate isn't should he be voted in now.
    Then yes, in that hypothetical situation, I think being 400/400 would have probably got him into the HOF easily.



  12. #12
    All-Star egami's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    iowa
    Posts
    1,944
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 2
    Given: 0

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    It's pretty cut and dried to me that a lot of analysts circa 1998 had Bonds in their top five of all time.



  13. #13
    Pro
    Points: 71,772, Level: 83
    Level completed: 19%, Points required for next Level: 1,378
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points
    JonDMiller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    2,531
    Points
    71,772
    Level
    83
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 40
    Given: 0

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Bonds was a HOF'er in 1998.


    'Until things are brighter, I'm the man in black.'

  14. #14
    Speechless
    Points: 185,251, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 10.0%
    Achievements:
    SocialRecommendation Second ClassVeteran50000 Experience Points
    ajk4st8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ankeny
    Posts
    15,561
    Points
    185,251
    Level
    100
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 255
    Given: 623

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Have any current HOF players been linked to steroids?



  15. #15
    Pro
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Ames, IA
    Posts
    3,273
    Thumbs Up
    Received: 0
    Given: 0

    Re: Barry Bonds Not a HOF Until Steriods??

    Quote Originally Posted by ajk4st8 View Post
    Have any current HOF players been linked to steroids?
    No. But something that people do not talk about is that football players have been using steroids since the 1950s. There are links to steriods going that far back.

    Who is to say that baseball players could not have been doing this as well. The single thing that ticks me off the most about the steroids discussion is people act like it started in 1995 or something. Maybe in the 1990s is when it got more widespread, but I just can't be so naive to think that it only started then.

    Athletes have a history of trying to get an edge. In baseball, it was spitballs, sandpaper, vaseline, corked bats, greenies and other amphetamines, steriods, etc.

    If we want to call McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, A-Rod, etc., cheaters I am ok with that, but I think there are a lot more cheaters on a lot of different levels that we do not know about. I wouldn't be surprised if there was someone in the HOF that used some kind of PEDs. The problem is that the only testing we have is 2003 and onward, so you can't go back and prove whether people did it. But I do wonder if Cal Ripken was taking something to keep him in the lineup everyday? I mean, going that many years without taking a day off is pretty rough. I guess we'll never know for sure.



Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
  • TV: Cyclones.tv
  • HOOPS: Iowa State vs. Mississippi Valley State
  • December 31, 2014
  • 06:00 PM