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  1. #1
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    question 4 you refs/experts out there

    I have to confess I don't get to watch college WBB much, but last
    nite I was watching the game and it struck me that the hooking
    that is allowed in the lane was getting rediculous, (Mama Moo
    noticed as well) and I was hoping some of you that do a bit of reffing
    and/or watches alot of games could comment on this.

    I counted at least 4 or 5 times where it was REALLY obvious that
    Appel hooked Weiben etc. for an easy lay-up , and maybe 4 or
    5 other times when she managed to be a bit more discreet about
    it.

    She is obviously a great player, but if you tally up just the field goals
    and three point plays where it was an OBVIOUS case of hooking
    our defensive player, and ignore the situations where it was an
    "either way" call, you still easily account for (at least) a quarter of her
    points, drastically changing the dynamics of the game.

    Like I say, as I get to watch almost no BB of any kind any more,
    and I hadn't heard a single person mention it, I was wondering if it is
    pretty much allowed anymore, so everybody it sort-of used to seeing
    it, OR, if last nite was an example of a player recognizing that it was
    being overlooked and thus utilyzing the move more than is usual.

    m.



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.


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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    It's overlooked. Also, depending on the angle you're watching from, it can be difficult to see. Obviously the referees out top may see it, but the lane isn't their call. A lot of women are guilty of it. Even some of our own do it. The one move I notice it a lot with is when women have their backs to the basket and do a quick spin and throw up a layup from 6 feet away underhand.

    Quote Originally Posted by isucyfan View Post
    Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.
    You and me both. I HATE that move.



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Quote Originally Posted by isucyfan View Post
    Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.
    I agree with you. Even worst is that in some games it was called as traveling. So you just don't know what you gonna get from ref to ref. It sucks.



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying"



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Quote Originally Posted by isucyfan View Post
    Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.
    It's not traveling in the women's game. It's also legal for high school girls. I don't know why, but that is the case.



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Quote Originally Posted by khaal53 View Post
    It's not traveling in the women's game. It's also legal for high school girls. I don't know why, but that is the case.
    I know it's not, but that's what bugs me. It should be.


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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    To add to this I also noticed numerous times Appel hooked Wieben/Anderson/Nisleit while going for a rebound. Hooked an arm to hold them off then rebounded with her free hand.

    As a matter of fact that exact move led to Wieben's second foul and put her on the bench for the rest of the 1st half.



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Quote Originally Posted by isucyfan View Post
    Not to derail your thread, but on a similar note, I can't stand that they allow that "step-through" move in the women's game. They change their pivot foot, which is traveling!! It drives me batty.
    Its only traveling if you pick up your pivot foot AND put it back on the floor. Otherwise, everyone attempting a jumpshot would travel.



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    They also seem to not call palming or carrying in the womens game. I think Lacy carried the ball almost every possession.


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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Quote Originally Posted by khaal53 View Post
    It's not traveling in the women's game. It's also legal for high school girls. I don't know why, but that is the case.
    Its not traveling in the men's game or hs boys either. You just don't see it much. I think probably because it would super easy for an athletic defender to block.



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Quote Originally Posted by clone52 View Post
    Its not traveling in the men's game or hs boys either.
    Not sure that's true...I thought anytime you established a pivot foot, then changed it, it's textbook traveling. That's what they allow in the women's/girls game for some reason. Men/boys would get called for traveling 99% of the time for that move.


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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    well, i correct me if i'm wrong, but i guess it prolly goes like this. Establish right foot as pivot foot. then step through with the left, and (theoretically) jump with both feet coming off the ground at the same time. Theoretically that's what's going on right? ....even though really it's just stepping through and lifting your right foot slightly before your left???



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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Quote Originally Posted by MidwestZest View Post
    well, i correct me if i'm wrong, but i guess it prolly goes like this. Establish right foot as pivot foot. then step through with the left, and (theoretically) jump with both feet coming off the ground at the same time. Theoretically that's what's going on right? ....even though really it's just stepping through and lifting your right foot slightly before your left???
    From what I've always understood, when you establish a pivot foot, (which is what is done when the player turns and shows ball in this move) it's then "glued" to the floor. Any picking up of said foot without jumping to pass or shoot results in a travel. With this "up and under" move, there is a step before the shot, which to me is a textbook travel.

    I could be wrong, though...that happened once before.


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    Re: question 4 you refs/experts out there

    Here's the NCAA rule:

    Art. 4. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
    a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before
    the ball is released on a pass or try for goal;
    So, it's definitely legal in both men's and women's...we should start teaching our men that move, because it offers a huge advantage to the offensive player, IMO.


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