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  1. #1
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    Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    I have been reading much analysis, etc. for the past few weeks reagarding the problem with our men's basketball team. We can throw out as many stats from years past as we want. The simple fact is that we just don't have good enough players right now to compete in the Big 12 conference. Guard play is critical to success in college basketball and we don't have good enough ones right now. Go back and look at some of the ISU teams from the past that were successful and you will find out that we had some very good guards in those years. Tinsley, Thigpen, Bayless, Hornacek, Willoughby, Horton, Nurse,Stinson, Blaylock, etc. Petersen, Haluska, Garrett, Boozer, etc. just aren't good enough to compete at a high level in the conference. Try and find a successful team from the past at ISU that didn't have some really good guard play. I bet you can't do it. Good guards are the key and we don't have them. I really hope Colvin and Buckley are going to help. Garrett must learn to hit an open jumper or he will never be what we need. If we can get guards who can penetrate, hit open jumpers and be LEADERS then we will improve. If we can't we will still struggle mightily.



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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    I argue that are problem is endurance. That is why we always start strong but fizzle in the second half- that is why we can't put teams away, that is why we have lost so many games this year. You can see that as the game goes on, the shots become weaker and weaker.



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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    This is only the surface of the problem. The deeper problem is player turnover. We can't compete when the best player of each year keeps leaving, and when there is seemingly a brand new starting line-up each and every year. Some of it's mandatory (graduation), but most of it was players transferring (WJ, Dodie, etc.).

    Once things start to stabilize, I think you will see this program improve in a hurry. We've McD and his staff has proven they can recruit quality players, and there is every indication that they continue to do so with the way future recruiting classes are shaping up.


    Go Sssssssssyclones!

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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Why does everybody hate on Diante?? I think he is doing extremely well this year and I think he has totally transformed his game. 10 points, 5 assists this year is way ahead of where I thought he would be at. He could use strength training but that could be said about every player on the team. Thats why I wanted McDermott to go after a bruiser in the 09 class. Somebody that doesn't score very much but just punishes other teams by pushing people around. Hell, Kenny Pratt, Stevie Johnson, and Richard Evans were the three that came to my mind and none of them were even 6'6".



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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Here is ISU bball in a nutshell.


    McD is a good enough coach to keep it close until about 5 minutes to go. Then the games usually come down to talent. We don't have the horses to out-talent the other team and then we lose.


    Oh and no one moves without the ball well.


    @RandomGeoFacts

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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by mjones34 View Post
    Here is ISU bball in a nutshell.


    McD is a good enough coach to keep it close until about 5 minutes to go. Then the games usually come down to talent. We don't have the horses to out-talent the other team and then we lose.


    Oh and no one moves without the ball well.
    Zing!




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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by hursts View Post
    I have been reading much analysis, etc. for the past few weeks reagarding the problem with our men's basketball team. We can throw out as many stats from years past as we want. The simple fact is that we just don't have good enough players right now to compete in the Big 12 conference. Guard play is critical to success in college basketball and we don't have good enough ones right now. Go back and look at some of the ISU teams from the past that were successful and you will find out that we had some very good guards in those years. Tinsley, Thigpen, Bayless, Hornacek, Willoughby, Horton, Nurse,Stinson, Blaylock, etc. Petersen, Haluska, Garrett, Boozer, etc. just aren't good enough to compete at a high level in the conference. Try and find a successful team from the past at ISU that didn't have some really good guard play. I bet you can't do it. Good guards are the key and we don't have them. I really hope Colvin and Buckley are going to help. Garrett must learn to hit an open jumper or he will never be what we need. If we can get guards who can penetrate, hit open jumpers and be LEADERS then we will improve. If we can't we will still struggle mightily.

    Although I think Garrett will be solid for us...this post rings true...our biggest problem is that we are playing teams that have more talent than us...hopefully we are addressing that in recruiting (I believe we are)...our backcourt should definately be improved next year.



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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Wednesday will be interesting. NU also has a lack of Talent, but they have managed to win a few more games than ISU.

    ISU needs to beat NU and avoid another MELTDOWN on the Road.

    GO CYCLONES.



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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Melvin View Post
    Wednesday will be interesting. NU also has a lack of Talent, but they have managed to win a few more games than ISU.

    ISU needs to beat NU and avoid another MELTDOWN on the Road.

    GO CYCLONES.
    They are miles ahead of us in the backcourt...it'd be a nice W...but I would bet against it on the road.



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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Melvin View Post
    Wednesday will be interesting. NU also has a lack of Talent, but they have managed to win a few more games than ISU.

    ISU needs to beat NU and avoid another MELTDOWN on the Road.

    GO CYCLONES.
    Not gon-na ha-ppen, clap clap, clap-clap-clap


    While on live TV, Ford used a vulgar term to describe a private part of the female anatomy, adding that he was “happily married” and “got more than enough to eat at home.”

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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by AirWalke View Post
    This is only the surface of the problem. The deeper problem is player turnover. We can't compete when the best player of each year keeps leaving, and when there is seemingly a brand new starting line-up each and every year. Some of it's mandatory (graduation), but most of it was players transferring (WJ, Dodie, etc.).

    Once things start to stabilize, I think you will see this program improve in a hurry. We've McD and his staff has proven they can recruit quality players, and there is every indication that they continue to do so with the way future recruiting classes are shaping up.
    Turnover in CBB is constant. You have to deal with it. I will grant you that turnover under McDermott has been above what is average for a college program.

    Turnover in and of itself doesn't automatically ensure a poor record. Look at Tim Floyd's second year at ISU. Look at KU this year. Look at Butler this year.

    One last thing, I read a post talking about the fact that WJ was supposed to be the "face of the program". At the great programs, the "face of the program" is the coach...period. Think Duke and you think Coach K, Think Syracuse and you think Boeheim, Think Florida and you think Billy D, think Michigan State and you think Izzo, etc. etc.



    I cheer for two teams, Iowa State and whoever is playing the hawkeyes.

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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by hursts View Post
    Go back and look at some of the ISU teams from the past that were successful and you will find out that we had some very good guards in those years. Tinsley, Thigpen, Bayless, Hornacek, Willoughby, Horton, Nurse,Stinson, Blaylock,.
    They also had Meyer, Pratt, Cato, Fizer, Homan, Vroman etc


    Last edited by clones_jer; 03-02-2009 at 02:05 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonenum1 View Post
    One last thing, I read a post talking about the fact that WJ was supposed to be the "face of the program". At the great programs, the "face of the program" is the coach...period. Think Duke and you think Coach K, Think Syracuse and you think Boeheim, Think Florida and you think Billy D, think Michigan State and you think Izzo, etc. etc.
    What's the average tenure for these coaches? Were they the face of their programs in their third year?


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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonenum1 View Post
    think Michigan State and you think Izzo, etc. etc.
    I think Izzo when I hear Jay-Z



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    Re: Problem with men's basketball is very simple

    Quote Originally Posted by cyclonenum1 View Post
    Turnover in CBB is constant. You have to deal with it. I will grant you that turnover under McDermott has been above what is average for a college program.

    Turnover in and of itself doesn't automatically ensure a poor record. Look at Tim Floyd's second year at ISU. Look at KU this year. Look at Butler this year. Tim Floyd went with all transfers and JC recruits to do this other than Holloway...and it was a phenominal turnaround...McDermott has said repeatedly he is going to rely on recruiting freshman for the most part...as far as Kansas and Butler go for examples...Kansas brings in the best of the best every single year for recruiting...and Butler is constantly at the top of the Horizon as well for recruiting whether it was Collier, Lickliter, or now Stephens...tough to compare where we relate in the Big 12 to Kansas, and to where Butler ranks in the Horizon.

    One last thing, I read a post talking about the fact that WJ was supposed to be the "face of the program". At the great programs, the "face of the program" is the coach...period. Think Duke and you think Coach K, Think Syracuse and you think Boeheim, Think Florida and you think Billy D, think Michigan State and you think Izzo, etc. etc. He meant that Wesley Johnson was going to be the centerpiece of that team to build around...all of those coaches you name have been at those schools for a long, long time...of course your going to think of them when you think of their program...if McDermott is here in 10 years, people will think of him when they think of ISU as well



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