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  1. #1
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    Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    1st off many on here know I am on record saying that the Big 10 is not slower than the Big 12 or SEC, and I believe the evidence over the last several years in the form of draft picks combine/Pro-days bare this out. This however isn’t what I care to talk about per se. I mentioned it right off the bat so we could try and keep the conference affiliation and cheer leading stuff out of the way. My goal is to have an intelligent conversation (with the best site on the web) about the ambiguity of these speed times. I tuned in to the DB portion of the combines (I DVR’d it) to watch Bradley Fletcher from Iowa run and because I like to catalogue info in my head for future debates………..

    While watching many, many of these guys are running what are “allegedly” slow 40 times. Which here are my major conundrums and I’ll give you examples in a minute………….

    1# We have long held the belief that WR and DB’s (CB’s in particular) should all run 4.4 something’s & occasionally 4.3’s But this isn't even close to accurate!!!

    2# We are continually told that these high school kids ran a ””””4.4”””” forty at an electronically timed camp only to find out four years later he runs a 4.6 at near the same weight?!?

    3# We are regularly lead to believe that all the fast kids live in the South and that those universities and conferences are faster as a result?

    4# A kid comes in at 4.4 and looks like he is pulling a plow his whole career and a 4.66 kid is a blur and in on every play.

    I think you get the drift. Truly these 40 times mean absolute bumpkus. It may raise your draft status but either you can play football or you can’t. Sometimes a kid scores a really fast time and IS that good. But more often that not WR’s in the NFL aren’t 4.4 kids but rather 4.55 to 4.65 and they are studs. Ala Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald.
    Also we think all Lbers should run 4.55 to 4.6 forties with 4.7 being the absolute low end, but plenty run 4.8’s and are still very “quick“. The point being it isn’t the 40 times that make them fast but rather reflexes, agility, “smarts” instinct, effort and study. This is all fresh in my head again because I constantly have these battles with Iowa fans trying to short change our kids who they deem as 2nd class athletes. Brett Greenwood being the latest, especially with 2 safeties transferring out.

    Here are some interesting D-back times from the combine, (which I haven’t even finished)…………

    Malcom Jenkins Ohio St……….universally considered the number 1 corner ran a 4.55. #2 Vontate Davis from Illinois ran a 4.43

    Emmanuel Cook superstar safety from South Carolina ran a 4.67 & 4.61. Which for a safety isn’t terrible though we have been lead to believe it is. On a side note for the Iowa fans if you are reading I guarantee Greenwood runs at least that fast but likely better.

    Kevin Ellison a HUGE 225 lb sfty from USC ran a 4.82

    Cary Harris CB from USC only ran a 4.58.………..is this slow or are we mislead?!

    Nic Harris Sfty from Oklahoma ran a 4.78 and a 4.85, though he is HUGE at 235 and will probably move to Lber in the NFL! All the same he was a Dang big Sfty, makes you wonder how he covered WR’s at all?

    Lendy Holmes Oklahoma, came in as a WR and is allegedly a terrific athlete. He ran a 4.74 & 4.71, so is he a good athlete or not? I say he is, even though his 40 time was “slow”!

    Obviously there are more and this is hardly new this year. The truth is I think we have a misconception of what makes a team or a player fast. Looking at these numbers one might say, WOW I guess OU is actually slow. Or how can a kid play in the D-backfield running a time like that @ USC. For comparison (have to get a small Iowa pub in……….) Iowa put a kid in the NFL last year Godfrey at 4.38 and Fletcher this year ran a 4.47 at least that’s what they flashed as unofficial!

    What’s my point you ask? Well I think there are a lot of “fast” teams out there, including Iowa and the Big 10 as a whole. But more importantly what we define as speed isn’t as easily measured as we think.

    Sorry for the length, but this is a neat subject and I would enjoy some thoughts…………..

    Chad


    Last edited by cmhawks99; 03-01-2009 at 05:43 PM.

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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    Maybe they define speed as a team speed rather then few individuals?



  3. #3
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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    Quote Originally Posted by CyDude16 View Post
    Maybe they define speed as a team speed rather then few individuals?
    I concur but then again lets toss out 2 more USC players. Uber athlete Lber Brian Cushing ran a 4.74 and Maluaga ?sp? conveniently pulled up lame. All the same he isn't faster than Cushing. So there you have 4 players off what is thought to be one of the best/fastest D's of all time running less than great 40 times.

    Once again I watched them play. I too thought they were fast but those aren't super fast times if you see what I'm saying. We are looking at the wrong things, and maybe there are plenty of fast D's out there in unlikely places.

    Chad



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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    Theres a difference in speed based on your 40 and speed on the field. A lot of the Big 10 thing is the games are slow and boring. Which leads us to believe that the players are slower.

    Speed on the field isn't just in a straight line. You have to be able to change direction and keep going, this is where the Big 10 is slow.



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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    Quote Originally Posted by TitanClone View Post
    Theres a difference in speed based on your 40 and speed on the field. A lot of the Big 10 thing is the games are slow and boring. Which leads us to believe that the players are slower.

    Speed on the field isn't just in a straight line. You have to be able to change direction and keep going, this is where the Big 10 is slow.
    1# This is true...........

    2# This seems plausible............

    3# I seriously don't want this to turn into a Big 10 vs. Big 12 peeing match but this isn't true. I know Iowa isn't the entirety of the Big 10 so to speak............But they historically have electric shuttle and Pro-agility times. In fact when comparing Ace Bowen and Mike Humpal from last year. Hump was a little faster in the 40 but waaaayyyyyy quicker in the others.

    Chad


    Last edited by cmhawks99; 03-01-2009 at 06:31 PM.

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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    Quote Originally Posted by TitanClone View Post
    Theres a difference in speed based on your 40 and speed on the field. A lot of the Big 10 thing is the games are slow and boring. Which leads us to believe that the players are slower.

    Speed on the field isn't just in a straight line. You have to be able to change direction and keep going, this is where the Big 10 is slow.
    Great post.



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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUAlum2002 View Post
    Great post.
    Honestly I'm more interested in the ambiguity of the numbers than proving one conference is superior to the other. I happen to think they are similar, yet cyclical. The speed numbers are comparable.

    Chad



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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    I remember Chris Johnson running like a 4.24, or something close to that, a couple of years ago.

    So some of the numbers in the original post could be considered "slow".



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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    I'm reading an Seneca Wallace ran a 4.5 40. Good for a quarterback.


    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneErik View Post
    And I'm thinking that cycofan just made the air, baby!
    Quote Originally Posted by rworkman83 View Post
    I'll be honest, Cycofan1 sounds much older than what he makes me believe on here.

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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    i run a low 5


    B.F.S.R.

  11. #11
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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    See inadvertently or intentionally you guys are on to what I'm taking about. Johnson did run a 4.24, but many, many other Rbers didn't and they are studs.

    Furthermore most NFL QBs have run 4.8 to 5.0 and starred (really has little to with being a QB) while Senecca has been a journeyman.

    What really makes a person fast or a future hall of famer? For every Chris Johson there are more Emmit Smiths or Terrel Davis's. 4.6 or 4.7 studs!

    Chad



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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    My biggest thing is that a pure 40 time DOES NOT prove football speed. When on the football field are you going to run a straight line with no pads on??? NEVER!!!

    If you want a good measure of speed, make them run 40 yards with leg and shoulder pads, and with a helmet on. then you can see who is "football fast"



  13. #13
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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    Quote Originally Posted by cmhawks99 View Post
    See inadvertently or intentionally you guys are on to what I'm taking about. Johnson did run a 4.24, but many, many other Rbers didn't and they are studs.

    Furthermore most NFL QBs have run 4.8 to 5.0 and starred (really has little to with being a QB) while Senecca has been a journeyman.

    What really makes a person fast or a future hall of famer? For every Chris Johson there are more Emmit Smiths or Terrel Davis's. 4.6 or 4.7 studs!

    Chad
    most of the studs are going to be fast, and arent representative of the conference as a whole.

    40 speed differs on from field speed

    on a related note, i found this survey hilarious.


    How would you best describe Ohio State's offense?

    • Like plate tectonics, but without the awesome explosions and earthquakes (39.0%, 1,085 Votes)
    • Like two sloths tearing open a stone crab (22.0%, 608 Votes)
    • Like lightning made of slow (20.0%, 557 Votes)
    • Like two Ents having sex (20.0%, 546 Votes)

    Total Voters: 2,796



  14. #14
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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    Watch the tape. Guys running NFL teams watch tape. Combines are for Jerry Maguire-wannbes and team agents to butt heads with and only make theatrics. The Combine is theater.

    You need to look at tapes to find the ball players, and then just choose amongst the least-gangsta/alcoholic/bong-hitting of the lot. I guess Larry Fitzgerald wasn't an altar boy, but it looks like he had a foundation of which he could grow into a man of character...and the skills are outstanding.

    Watch tape. Any team that doesn't pick Crabtree #1 at wideout is insane, I don't care what his 40 is or his height. Unless there are camera photos of him hitting the water pipe, he is your #1. Same goes for db's and linebackers or any position.



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    Re: Anyone follow the “speed” numbers from the combine…….

    2 words....football speed. 2 more words....Jerry Rice. 2 more words....Emmitt Smith. I could go on.

    40 times are overrated.

    Team speed can be seen with the naked eye with no stopwatch.



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