Banning A-11 Offense . . .
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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .




    HAHA Creep Iowa



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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    This would start a slippery slope. Before you know it they won't allow the defense to blitz.


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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by wartknight View Post
    This would start a slippery slope. Before you know it they won't allow the defense to blitz.
    I don't think so ... you read the article and it sounds like they're just trying to close a loophole some coaches are exploiting. Every sport has changes to the rules every year.

    And if its a high school sport there's a line somewhere about a "unsporting play or act" or "any variation of the rules not covered is at the descretion of the official" that this type of rule manipulation could fall under.



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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Yeah why would use use a loop hole to win a game?



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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    So I don't get what the problem is. You know before the play starts who's an eligible reciever. They still can only have 5 eligible recievers. Basically they have their linemen split out. Isn't that the same thing that Spurrier has done for years when he splits the tackles out to be in bunches with the recievers? And if you ban this are you going to ban wide split o-lines like what TTech uses?



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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonehomer View Post
    So I don't get what the problem is. You know before the play starts who's an eligible reciever. They still can only have 5 eligible recievers. Basically they have their linemen split out. Isn't that the same thing that Spurrier has done for years when he splits the tackles out to be in bunches with the recievers? And if you ban this are you going to ban wide split o-lines like what TTech uses?
    At one point the article says they wait to get set until the play clock is down to a couple seconds. Therefore the defense is given ony a second or two to recognize the eligible recievers and adjust. There for there are no real "tackles" .. their just ineligible receivers who block on that particular down. the next play they line up on the line of schrimage, setup make off it at the last second and their eligible.



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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonehomer View Post
    So I don't get what the problem is. You know before the play starts who's an eligible reciever. They still can only have 5 eligible recievers. Basically they have their linemen split out. Isn't that the same thing that Spurrier has done for years when he splits the tackles out to be in bunches with the recievers? And if you ban this are you going to ban wide split o-lines like what TTech uses?
    Just before the snap, a previously eligible receiver (who was standing off the line) can step up to the line and a previously ineligible (on the other side of the field) can step back becoming eligible. Since all the guys are wearing receiver eligible numbers, you don't have to report with the ref before the play.



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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by cycopath25 View Post
    Yeah why would use use a loop hole to win a game?
    Well if its ISU we call it "smart play calling" if its an opponent we call them cheating bastards.

    It's in the eyes of the beholder, but state associations try to have everyone act in a sporting manner. This includes deliberately decieving an opponent. It's why tackles have to report as eligible in some formations in a normal offense (where they where lineman numbers).

    I don't ref football, so I'm not sure of the particulars.



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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by clones_jer View Post
    I don't think so ... you read the article and it sounds like they're just trying to close a loophole some coaches are exploiting. Every sport has changes to the rules every year.

    And if its a high school sport there's a line somewhere about a "unsporting play or act" or "any variation of the rules not covered is at the descretion of the official" that this type of rule manipulation could fall under.
    There's lots of other loopholes that coaches exploit, like say for instance, the forward pass.
    As long as there are 7 guys on the line, I have no issues with it, and I'm about as conservative of coach as they come. I just think some other coaches are scared now that they've been out-thunk (is that a word?) and can't figure out a way to stop it. Its just like how everything else in football has evolved.


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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by wartknight View Post
    There's lots of other loopholes that coaches exploit, like say for instance, the forward pass.
    As long as there are 7 guys on the line, I have no issues with it, and I'm about as conservative of coach as they come. I just think some other coaches are scared now that they've been out-thunk (is that a word?) and can't figure out a way to stop it. Its just like how everything else in football has evolved.
    but have you played against it?

    let me know what you think when you have to telling 8 DB's they have 1 second to determine if they receiver they're covering is eligible or not. You did read the part where they shift immediately prior to the snap right?

    And the forward pass was a loophole 50 years ago, I'm sure its discussed at length in todays rule book. Maybe that's all the A-11 needs, a rule tweak : minimal shifts allowed proir to the snap if you have less than 5 down lineman or something like that.


    Last edited by clones_jer; 02-12-2009 at 12:28 PM.

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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Does this mean trick plays will now be banned?


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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by cycloneG View Post
    Does this mean trick plays will now be banned?
    I think the difference is on a trick play the defense knows which players are eligible receivers and which players must stay at the line of scrimmage. A trick play involves tricking the defense using players they know are eligible. With the A-11, the defense has no clue of even knowing which player is eligible or not - it's practically impossible to defend.


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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by jdoggivjc View Post
    I think the difference is on a trick play the defense knows which players are eligible receivers and which players must stay at the line of scrimmage. A trick play involves tricking the defense using players they know are eligible. With the A-11, the defense has no clue of even knowing which player is eligible or not - it's practically impossible to defend.
    Zone defense?




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    Re: Banning A-11 Offense . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneWanderer View Post
    Zone defense?
    Even in a zone defense you have some clue as to what's going on with a play just by looking at formation. All defenses work off of keys that the offense gives them. You automatically know no more than 6 players will have an opportunity to end up in your zone, and specifically you know which 6 players those are. On top of that, you can usually winnow it down to the 2 players that are on your side of the field. You know going in whether the offense is going to have a balanced formation or whether they're going to overload one side of the field. On top of that, after the offense sets they only get to put one player in motion, so the keys remain rather firm. With the A-11, you know that 6 will be involved in the play, but you have no clue as to which 6. Furthermore, you have no clue as to whether all 5 of them (assuming QB still remains under center) will overload one side of the field or whether they're going to spread the defense out. With the speed of today's players, even the defense needs something to key on or the zone becomes ineffective as the receivers will blow right by the secondary as they're still trying to piece together the play that is coming at them.

    Granted, a standard offense will sometimes overload one side of the field as well, but at least the defense has 5-10 seconds to adjust and react before the ball is snapped. With the A-11, the defense doesn't know the formation until 1-2 seconds before the snap - impossible to adjust to.


    Last edited by jdoggivjc; 02-12-2009 at 01:15 PM.
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