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    Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Read a couple of places its been reported on XM Radio. One year, 8 million.

    So, either we're going with the worst defensive outfield in the history of the game with Quentin in center, or Dye would be getting moved.



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    I thought that was the offer, I didn't read that he accepted that.



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    ugh. not sure i like that



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Quote Originally Posted by CrossCyed View Post
    Read a couple of places its been reported on XM Radio. One year, 8 million.

    So, either we're going with the worst defensive outfield in the history of the game with Quentin in center, or Dye would be getting moved.
    Wasn't Ozzie wanting the White Sox line up more like the Twins? Having the ability to manufacture runs as opposed to waiting for the long ball all the time. I don't really understand this signing completely. I'm sure their GM will be trading somebody though if the do indeed get Abreu. I read on ESPN I think that they would most likely move Dye or Thome. Move them both I say, they have killed the Twins for a while!



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Quote Originally Posted by gocubs2118 View Post
    I thought that was the offer, I didn't read that he accepted that.
    Yeah, I haven't been able to find a link.....just numerous message boards saying that he agreed to the deal per XM Radio.



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Bobby Abreu would be a great fit to hit 2nd in the Sox lineup and give us another respectable left handed bat. However, he only fits if Dye is moved.



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    I haven't really kept up with Abreu since he went to the Yankees but I'm not sure what to think of this move. Personally I'd rather move Thome than Dye. Jermaine at his best can carry the team for extended periods of time. Jimmy can get 30+ homers still, but he strikes out way too much and hits directly into the shift more times than not.

    Does anyone else think that Kenny Williams is a bit of a hypocrite? He talks about youth and speed and then consistently signs older, slower players.



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Right now IMO, Abreu is only a DH. He was pretty bad last year in RF. I was relieved when the Cubs didn't sign hiim.



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Quote Originally Posted by burn587 View Post
    I haven't really kept up with Abreu since he went to the Yankees but I'm not sure what to think of this move. Personally I'd rather move Thome than Dye. Jermaine at his best can carry the team for extended periods of time. Jimmy can get 30+ homers still, but he strikes out way too much and hits directly into the shift more times than not.

    Does anyone else think that Kenny Williams is a bit of a hypocrite? He talks about youth and speed and then consistently signs older, slower players.
    Abreu is a nice fit because the Sox have no other respectable left handed bat other than Thome. Abreu is older, but he's not that slow. He still stole over 20 bases last year.

    He's an OBP guy (they tried that with Swisher, but he actually does other things, too).

    Defensively, he's not worth much anymore, but neither is Jermaine Dye. That's why I'm perfectly content with this if JD is moved. If we have both? Not so much.



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    A team source dismissed the rumor to the Daily Herald.

    Daily Herald | Sorry, Sox fans: Team source dismisses Abreu rumor



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Quote Originally Posted by mwitt View Post
    Abreu is a nice fit because the Sox have no other respectable left handed bat other than Thome. Abreu is older, but he's not that slow. He still stole over 20 bases last year.

    He's an OBP guy (they tried that with Swisher, but he actually does other things, too).

    Defensively, he's not worth much anymore, but neither is Jermaine Dye. That's why I'm perfectly content with this if JD is moved. If we have both? Not so much.

    Abreu's OBP hasn't been the greatest at .371, although it is higher than Dye's....

    Dye has a higher slugging % though.

    So for the Abreu vs. Dye thing, think about this: would you rather have a .371 OBP and .471 SLUG (Abreu) or .344 OBP and .541 SLUG (Dye)?

    The answer: They're the same! Jermaine Dye creates about 6.3 runs per while Abreu creates about 6.2 Both guys are the same age, position, and offensive output, so it doesn't really matter that much but a slight edge goes to Dye...


    For those of you that want Thome moved: Both Thome and Abreu have the same number of runs created per game at 6.2. Considering Thome is 3 years older, I think there's an argument that he's a more productive player.

    SO

    The White Sox added someone they shouldn't have because they will do exactly the same as their current DH and RF.... Abreu no longer has any range in the field and he's slowing down as his SB numbers are depreciating over time anyways.

    If you look at getting rid of someone, it should be Thome. Thome will make $13 million vs. Dye's 11.5 vs. Abreu's $8 mil

    To me, you have Abreu = Thome = Dye, yet I think Abreu's output will go down much faster than any of these guys. If you're looking at a short term deal, you trade Thome and save the $5 million difference.

    If you're looking over the course of 3 years or so, I think Dye and Thome will still put out better offensive production than Abreu as Abreu keeps going down... I view the best Abreu can do is be like Thome and Dye, but the worse is much worse than either....

    This is why I think Kenny Williams is a moron...He does stuff like this that make NO sense...


    I don't drink the Kool-Aid, and I am done making excuses. Only keeping it real...

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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Quote Originally Posted by mplscyclone View Post
    Abreu's OBP hasn't been the greatest at .371, although it is higher than Dye's....

    Dye has a higher slugging % though.

    So for the Abreu vs. Dye thing, think about this: would you rather have a .371 OBP and .471 SLUG (Abreu) or .344 OBP and .541 SLUG (Dye)?

    The answer: They're the same! Jermaine Dye creates about 6.3 runs per while Abreu creates about 6.2 Both guys are the same age, position, and offensive output, so it doesn't really matter that much but a slight edge goes to Dye...


    For those of you that want Thome moved: Both Thome and Abreu have the same number of runs created per game at 6.2. Considering Thome is 3 years older, I think there's an argument that he's a more productive player.

    SO

    The White Sox added someone they shouldn't have because they will do exactly the same as their current DH and RF.... Abreu no longer has any range in the field and he's slowing down as his SB numbers are depreciating over time anyways.

    If you look at getting rid of someone, it should be Thome. Thome will make $13 million vs. Dye's 11.5 vs. Abreu's $8 mil

    To me, you have Abreu = Thome = Dye, yet I think Abreu's output will go down much faster than any of these guys. If you're looking at a short term deal, you trade Thome and save the $5 million difference.

    If you're looking over the course of 3 years or so, I think Dye and Thome will still put out better offensive production than Abreu as Abreu keeps going down... I view the best Abreu can do is be like Thome and Dye, but the worse is much worse than either....

    This is why I think Kenny Williams is a moron...He does stuff like this that make NO sense...
    This isn't a done deal. In the event that he is signed, Jermaine Dye is gone. That nullifies about half of your drawn out post.

    Jim Thome has a no-trade clause, and it has been said that he isn't likely to accept a trade that isn't to Cleveland or the Cubs. And I don't know for sure, but I think Philly may still be paying part of his contract. I know that we got 20 some mil with him, but I don't remember the specifics. On top of that, Jermaine Dye would fetch a better return. Jermaine could play either corner position or DH for a team. He's basically a lock to play past 2009, and he will be a Type A free agent. Thome would also be a Type A, but there is the chance that he could retire after 2009. That takes out about half of the rest of your post.

    Just because these players produce about the same amount of runs does not mean they're the same player. They're completely different players. Thome strikes out a ton and is there to hit home runs. That is his role. Dye is a power hitter who doesn't have a lot of patience. He's a very good fit in the 5 hole. Bobby Abreu is a left handed bat (which we need), has a high OBP (which we need), and he is still able to steal a couple bases (which we need).

    It is about needs. For 2009, Bobby Abreu is a better fit for the White Sox than Jermaine Dye.


    Last edited by mwitt; 02-03-2009 at 06:11 PM.

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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Quote Originally Posted by mwitt View Post
    This isn't a done deal. In the event that he is signed, Jermaine Dye is gone. That nullifies about half of your drawn out post.

    Jim Thome has a no-trade clause, and it has been said that he isn't likely to accept a trade that isn't to Cleveland or the Cubs. And I don't know for sure, but I think Philly may still be paying part of his contract. I know that we got 20 some mil with him, but I don't remember the specifics. On top of that, Jermaine Dye would fetch a better return. Jermaine could play either corner position or DH for a team. He's basically a lock to play past 2009, and he will be a Type A free agent. Thome would also be a Type A, but there is the chance that he could retire after 2009. That takes out about half of the rest of your post.

    Just because these players produce about the same amount of runs does not mean they're the same player. They're completely different players. Thome strikes out a ton and is there to hit home runs. That is his role. Dye is a power hitter who doesn't have a lot of patience. He's a very good fit in the 5 hole. Bobby Abreu is a left handed bat (which we need), has a high OBP (which we need), and he is still able to steal a couple bases (which we need).

    It is about needs. For 2009, Bobby Abreu is a better fit for the White Sox than Jermaine Dye.
    It can nullify my post? You can do whatever you want lol... The fact that Abreu is EVEN offered to the ChiSox is an example of how much of an idiot Kenny is... He makes a couple good moves, then makes a stupid move like this...

    If I were running a team, I'd rather have the combo of Dye-Abreu or Dye-Thome than Thome-Abreu and that's what my post is about...

    You talk about how Abreu steals bases and the Sox "need" that. He got thrown out 11 times! He's only 22 of 33. Getting thrown out that many times is actually more counter-productive.

    It's better to not steal at all than to steal at rate of 66%. This has been shown through rigirous sabermetric analysis. I believe Bill James is the one who showed this. If you aren't making it 80% of the time or more, stealing costs your team more than it helps it.

    There is also NO correlation between the number of steals a team has and the number of games they win... Steals are good for fantasy baseball, but this is real life...

    Your whole argument about different players make no sense. The job of the offense is to score runs. If you score more runs, you win right? What I am saying is that Thome's power makes up for his lack of discipline at the plate. Abreu's additional plate discipline makes up for his lack of power. In the end, the team has the same result. A team of 9 Thomes would score 6.2 runs per game, and a team of 9 Abreus would score 6.2 runs per game.

    Thome strikes out more, but he also draws more walks than Abreu. Abreu is in triple digits almost every year in strikeouts anyways so it's not like he's Ichiro at the plate either...

    You talk about which team could get more via a trade. I would be willing to bet there are a fair number of teams that would pay up a couple of prospects for Thome anyways. You know how desperate some teams get when they're in the playoff race. I'm sure Thome would waive his clause if traded to the right team. He has to know he isn't getting a ring on the South Side this year...

    It's just that trading Dye only saves you $1.5 mil where trading Thome saves you $5 mil. I thought the White Sox were trying to save money but it doesn't really look like it to be honest.

    If you want a power left handed bat, you should just pay the extra money and get Adam Dunn. Adam Dunn gives you more runs per game than Thome, Dye, or Abreu... He also has a lot more mileage left as he's 28 or 29...


    Last edited by mplscyclone; 02-06-2009 at 10:27 AM.
    I don't drink the Kool-Aid, and I am done making excuses. Only keeping it real...

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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Quote Originally Posted by mwitt View Post

    Jim Thome has a no-trade clause, and it has been said that he isn't likely to accept a trade that isn't to Cleveland or the Cubs. And I don't know for sure, but I think Philly may still be paying part of his contract. I know that we got 20 some mil with him, but I don't remember the specifics. On top of that, Jermaine Dye would fetch a better return. Jermaine could play either corner position or DH for a team. He's basically a lock to play past 2009, and he will be a Type A free agent. Thome would also be a Type A, but there is the chance that he could retire after 2009. That takes out about half of the rest of your post.

    Just because these players produce about the same amount of runs does not mean they're the same player. They're completely different players. Thome strikes out a ton and is there to hit home runs. That is his role.
    Is the no-trade clause even relevant in Thome's case? He turns 39 this season and age is not kind to power hitters. He already has to overcompensate to handle a decent inside FB. This leaves more holes in his swing resulting in even more K's and roll-over ground outs. He can still make a pitcher pay for a mistake, but the pitcher will only have himself to blame for letting Thome beat him as age takes more of a toll this season.



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    Re: Sox Reportedly Sign Abreu

    Who cares the white sox aren't even going to win their division.. Let alone beat the Cubs!!!



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