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  1. #1
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    Changing Jobs???

    I have the oppourtunity to change jobs this spring. I have received an offer with a large company and it would provide me with a pay boost and would be close to our family instead of a couple thousand miles away. There are lots of positives to switching jobs, however, my big worry is job stability. Where I am now is extremely stable, pays relatively well, and I enjoy what I do. With the economy swirling in the toilet, I worry about leaving one position for the other followed by a potential down-sizing. I am in a very specialized field and I can't pick a spot to live and then find a job, it goes the other way around. I assume that any company hiring right now is only filling high priority positions. Any opinions or past experiences out there?



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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    My spirit would say to accept the job offer.

    I left a good paying position to start up my own business. My start-up business was in an unrelated field when compared to my education and past employment. Initially I only made a small fraction of what I earned, then the business took-off, and finally it nose-dived and I had to close the business. Nevertheless, I am better for trying and am happy for the experience.

    What are your aspirations?

    I have never put job stability high on my list and have worked in career fields that haven't been related to my education. In addition, geography is extremely important to me. I can't perceive of a job that I would accept that would require that I relocate to a city or away from the mountains. But that's just my personality.


    "If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." Albert Einstein
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    "Money is one of the greatest instruments of freedom ever invented by man." F.A. Hayek

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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Unfortunately, for me, job security is very important. With a family of 5... and still being relatively young, getting laid off would be a major blow to us.

    My question would be about the stability of the offering company... Do they have a history of layoffs? If you are the "new guy" you are top of the list come lay-off time.



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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    I wouldn't do it, but I'm a worrier. That's why my friends call me whiskers.


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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportstr View Post
    I have the oppourtunity to change jobs this spring. I have received an offer with a large company and it would provide me with a pay boost and would be close to our family instead of a couple thousand miles away. There are lots of positives to switching jobs, however, my big worry is job stability. Where I am now is extremely stable, pays relatively well, and I enjoy what I do. With the economy swirling in the toilet, I worry about leaving one position for the other followed by a potential down-sizing. I am in a very specialized field and I can't pick a spot to live and then find a job, it goes the other way around. I assume that any company hiring right now is only filling high priority positions. Any opinions or past experiences out there?
    I don't have any experience with a situation like this, but are they publicly listed? It might make some sense to investigate their business prospects through the publicly available information. High on my list of things to look at . . .

    - Are their sales expected to shrink dramatically as a result of the economy? How did their margins and profitability hold up in 2008?

    - Has their stock price dramatically outperformed or underperformed the broader market. What about vs the competitors.

    - Do they have bonds and what is the yield on those bonds relative to treasury yields (high yield relative to treasury yields implies high probability the company goes bankrupt).



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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportstr View Post
    I have the oppourtunity to change jobs this spring. I have received an offer with a large company and it would provide me with a pay boost and would be close to our family instead of a couple thousand miles away. There are lots of positives to switching jobs, however, my big worry is job stability. Where I am now is extremely stable, pays relatively well, and I enjoy what I do. With the economy swirling in the toilet, I worry about leaving one position for the other followed by a potential down-sizing. I am in a very specialized field and I can't pick a spot to live and then find a job, it goes the other way around. I assume that any company hiring right now is only filling high priority positions. Any opinions or past experiences out there?
    I am curious as to what you actually do. I understand if you don't want to share, but it does depend on that... Some companies actually had growth last year. Others are looking to fill much needed positions. It all depends on the company, field, location, etc.


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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    You ultimately need to decide what is best for you.

    My advise is to take your time and make sure you have met all the people you can and will be working with and really have a feel for them, both superior and direct reports/support staff. Get a real feel for the culture.

    Also, if you are moving, I am guessing a contract/loa of some kind is involved. Try to get a minimum payout equal to the remainder of a one-year salary, minimum 90 day parachute, or to have them reimburse you moving expenses to your next job if things don't work out within 12 months. If they are asking you to move for the job, it is fair for you to request some kind of commitment from them. Within a 12 month period is standard on most employment contracts I have seen. If you are a top level guy, VP of a division, Executive Director, or C Level, a two year agreement is more standard.

    If it is a pay increase, and you take it, be sure to put the additional monies in the bank to safeguard yourself in the case things don't work out. Be prepared for at least 6 months of no salary. Then when the year is up, you have money in the bank to make interest off of, and new play money.

    Don't be afraid to make the step, when you do though, be cautious and prepared. I have moved twice for a job. Once it was good, once it was bad.

    Most importantly, don't buy an expensive showy car right after you start, at least don't drive it to work or tell co-workers about it. I have seen this happen countless times, and all it does is "xxxx" off your new co-workers, especially in a down economy where raises could be slow.

    Good luck and congratulations.


    Last edited by twistedredbird; 01-31-2009 at 11:43 AM.

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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by superdorf View Post
    Unfortunately, for me, job security is very important. With a family of 5... and still being relatively young, getting laid off would be a major blow to us.

    My question would be about the stability of the offering company... Do they have a history of layoffs? If you are the "new guy" you are top of the list come lay-off time.

    No, they don't really have a history of layoffs. There were a limited number a few years back but from what I gather the folks left out after the restructuring were those not performing. I also have a young family which weighs heavily in this decision.



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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by cyfan964 View Post
    I wouldn't do it, but I'm a worrier. That's why my friends call me whiskers.

    I am also a "worrier" by nature. I often think that my preoccupation with worring about and over analyzing every possible negative scenerio holds me back at times. It certainly annoys my wife.



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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportstr View Post
    No, they don't really have a history of layoffs. There were a limited number a few years back but from what I gather the folks left out after the restructuring were those not performing. I also have a young family which weighs heavily in this decision.
    One thing I will say is that history doesn't always hold. Microsoft doesn't have a history of layoffs yet they're laying off people.

    What you can really hope for is that this company has it's head on it's shoulders. It has the budget set for the upcoming year. They have already taken precautions and actions regarding the economy.

    I work for Principal and they started cutting perks for 2009 in August. They announced layoffs in December. Everyone thought they were a bad company. Now you have situations where companies are laying people off with no notice to the tune of 500,000 people.

    What I hope for is that your new company has taken conservative measures and is ready to weather the storm. If they are one of these companies that is last-minute or in denial, then it would suck.

    Do you know anyone that works at this new place that you could talk to about the economic situation of the company?


    I don't drink the Kool-Aid, and I am done making excuses. Only keeping it real...

  11. #11
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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedredbird View Post
    You ultimately need to decide what is best for you.

    My advise is to take your time and make sure you have met all the people you can and will be working with and really have a feel for them, both superior and direct reports/support staff. Get a real feel for the culture.

    Also, if you are moving, I am guessing a contract/loa of some kind is involved. Try to get a minimum payout equal to the remainder of a one-year salary, minimum 90 day parachute, or to have them reimburse you moving expenses to your next job if things don't work out within 12 months. If they are asking you to move for the job, it is fair for you to request some kind of commitment from them. Within a 12 month period is standard on most employment contracts I have seen. If you are a top level guy, VP of a division, Executive Director, or C Level, a two year agreement is more standard.

    If it is a pay increase, and you take it, be sure to put the additional monies in the bank to safeguard yourself in the case things don't work out. Be prepared for at least 6 months of no salary. Then when the year is up, you have money in the bank to make interest off of, and new play money.

    Don't be afraid to make the step, when you do though, be cautious and prepared. I have moved twice for a job. Once it was good, once it was bad.

    Most importantly, don't buy an expensive showy car right after you start, at least don't drive it to work or tell co-workers about it. I have seen this happen countless times, and all it does is "xxxx" off your new co-workers, especially in a down economy where raises could be slow.

    Good luck and congratulations.

    I have the benefit of personally knowing several people that work there currently. I also would be hiring my own support staff, so hopefully I can avoid the situation you previously found yourself in. As you can see from my previous responses I am a "worrier" by nature and I will be rat holing a ridiculous amount of emergency cash in case of the worse. Never bought a fancy new car in my life and don't see myself starting anytime soon. See Phadreus's comments in the epic "car-buying" thread for a complete assessment of my car buying philosophy.



  12. #12
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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by mplscyclone View Post
    One thing I will say is that history doesn't always hold. Microsoft doesn't have a history of layoffs yet they're laying off people.

    What you can really hope for is that this company has it's head on it's shoulders. It has the budget set for the upcoming year. They have already taken precautions and actions regarding the economy.

    I work for Principal and they started cutting perks for 2009 in August. They announced layoffs in December. Everyone thought they were a bad company. Now you have situations where companies are laying people off with no notice to the tune of 500,000 people.

    What I hope for is that your new company has taken conservative measures and is ready to weather the storm. If they are one of these companies that is last-minute or in denial, then it would suck.

    Do you know anyone that works at this new place that you could talk to about the economic situation of the company?

    Yes, and the company seems to be very responsive to the economic conditions. but your Microsoft analogy rings true. When I interviewed they planned to fill a number of positions, but have since decided to fill only one at this time which they deem critical to their success. They gained market share in 08 and based on orders are expecting increased growth for 09.



  13. #13
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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    This smells like a thinly veiled Chizik metaphor.



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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by CLONEing around View Post
    This smells like a thinly veiled Chizik metaphor.

    What??



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    Re: Changing Jobs???

    Quote Originally Posted by Sportstr View Post
    Yes, and the company seems to be very responsive to the economic conditions. but your Microsoft analogy rings true. When I interviewed they planned to fill a number of positions, but have since decided to fill only one at this time which they deem critical to their success. They gained market share in 08 and based on orders are expecting increased growth for 09.
    Totally up to you but it seems like you should go for it. I mean, you'll be making more, closer to family, and it sounds like the company could use you.

    I think almost any job is at risk these days. I work in the actuarial profession and many of them feel untouchable during layoffs. Then, in December some very significant ones were gone.

    In the end, do the benefits outweigh the costs? If so, go for it! You only live once and you gotta take advantage of good opportunities.

    If the costs outweigh the benefits, then stay where you're at. It sounds like you could be in a worse situation.

    Best of luck!


    I don't drink the Kool-Aid, and I am done making excuses. Only keeping it real...

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