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  1. #1
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    Coaching changes

    I posted this on CR, and thought it was pertinent to the ongoing discussion here. It's not directed at those who have expressed logical concerns. Instead, it's for those who have actually concluded that firing McDermott is the solution to our problems.


    ...I agree that recruiting is picking up (and should get better when the new practice facility is completed) and the last thing we need is more coaching turnover. I think some Iowa State fans have been fooled into thinking that coaching transitions should be smooth based on our recent [basketball] history.

    As I mentioned in a post several weeks ago, of our last 4 basketball coaching transitions, only one has been "hostile" to the point of damaging the program. Frankly, we've been lucky when you really think about it.

    Orr -> Floyd: When Orr retired, I seem to remember Floyd receiving the blessing of Iowa State's basketball "godfathers". It certainly wasn't a hostile coaching change and there wasn't any significant player turnover. (Floyd inherited seniors Hoiberg, Meyer, Michalik.)

    Floyd -> Eustachy: Floyd headed to Chicago to replace the Zen master, and his good friend Eustachy was chosen as his replacement. Again, it wasn't a hostile coaching change and I don't recall any significant turnover. (Eustachy inherited Fizer, Rancik, Shirley, Stevie Johnson.)

    Eustachy -> Morgan: Eustachy got canned, so this was definitely a hostile coaching change. However, immediate damage was limited (not to say long-term damage wasn't done) as BVDV chose to hire one of Eustachy's assistants/lead recruiter. Again, no significant turnover. (Morgan inherited Sullivan, Homan, Vroman, and retained Stinson, Blalock, and Staple for obvious reasons.)

    Morgan -> McDermott: For the first time since at least 1980 (I don't know much about the Nance/Orr transition), Iowa State basketball goes through it's first truly hostile coaching change with immediate and lasting damage done to the program. We all know the story, so there no point in rehashing it. (Mac inherited Clark... Jessan Gray, Chris Caesar, Jeff Bergstrom??? I don't even remember.)

    The point is, another HOSTILE coaching change (firing McDermott) would be an absolute disaster for Iowa State basketball, guaranteeing continued scuffling for years to come. So, as Poster X suggests, I'm just going to "relax and hang with Mac." Besides, I think both Nostradamus and the Aztec calendar predicted that the world would end in 2012, so really we don't have TIME for another coaching change.



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    Re: Coaching changes

    Orr didnt like the Floyd hire. People were also upset and the Morgan hire. Good history other than that.


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    Re: Coaching changes

    Quote Originally Posted by kingcy View Post
    Orr didnt like the Floyd hire. People were also upset and the Morgan hire. Good history other than that.
    One clarification: The main point of my post has to do with the effects of each coaching transition on the program and the teams that were inherited by the incoming coach. As you mentioned, there were many fans who didn't think Morgan was a wise hire (I guess you could say that there was some fan "hostility"), but that doesn't change the fact that he inherited a pretty cushy setup in terms of personnel, etc.



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    Re: Coaching changes

    If I recall Orr very much wanted his long time assistant Jim Hallihan to be his succssor.



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    Re: Coaching changes

    I don't think McD should be fired right now, but just because it might be hostile shouldn't be a reason not to fire a coach. If it were, Morgan shouldn't have been fired.


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    Re: Coaching changes

    Great post. I'm sure there will be debate about the Orr-Floyd transition, but the point is pretty on point.

    The great point in the post was this: outside of Orr....Floyd, Eustachy and Morgan had solid teams, NCAA caliber teams (strong seniors, good talent pool, leadership) to inherit. McD had, well, not that somuch. Some may argue that he ran off good talent (Wesley) and other talent didn't like the Morgan divorce and prospect of Mac's system (Carr, Taggart, Degand)- or decided to make the leap to playing in Turkey (Stinson, Blalock). But i agree with the original post that its HARDER THIS TIME. The journey will be tough, but it will be rewarding and i'm absolutely positive Greg will give us a long-term, sustained history in the spirit of Johnny...except Greg is much younger. So longer runway.



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    Re: Coaching changes

    Quote Originally Posted by psychlone99 View Post
    Eustachy -> Morgan: Eustachy got canned, so this was definitely a hostile coaching change. However, immediate damage was limited (not to say long-term damage wasn't done) as BVDV chose to hire one of Eustachy's assistants/lead recruiter. Again, no significant turnover. (Morgan inherited Sullivan, Homan, Vroman, and retained Stinson, Blalock, and Staple for obvious reasons.)
    Isn't this when Haluska left? I think the long-term effects of that were more than we will ever know.
    If he doesn't leave, Morgan is still our coach
    Maybe we are better off, maybe not


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    Re: Coaching changes

    I would have to agree, for the most part.

    The Morgan firing was a brutal coaching change, about as bad as it could be, where the other coaching changes were really not that bad. LE's firing was not as bad as it could have been, because LE knew he had problems, he didn't put up a kicking fight like WM (hiring WM helped too).



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    Re: Coaching changes

    Quote Originally Posted by CyclonesRule View Post
    If I recall Orr very much wanted his long time assistant Jim Hallihan to be his succssor.
    lots of people wanted Hallihan to take over.


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    Re: Coaching changes

    If we didn't hire Morgan we wouldn't have gotten Stinson or Blalock as he was their recruiter. but I can see where you are coming from. McDermott basically started with no experience players besides Rashon Clark. Where as all the other coaches had some talent.



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    Re: Coaching changes

    Quote Originally Posted by CloneAggie View Post
    I don't think McD should be fired right now, but just because it might be hostile shouldn't be a reason not to fire a coach. If it were, Morgan shouldn't have been fired.
    There is a difference between Morgan and McD. Not many liked Morgan and there was a bit of a scandal at the end, which ISU would have likely suffered even more NCAA sanctions if they hadn't fired Morgan.

    For record alone Morgan would not have been fired so it's hard to make a argument for firing McD this season.



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    Re: Coaching changes

    Quote Originally Posted by wartknight View Post
    Isn't this when Haluska left? I think the long-term effects of that were more than we will ever know.
    If he doesn't leave, Morgan is still our coach
    Maybe we are better off, maybe not
    You can play the ifs all day long. If Mike Taylor doesnt get in trouble, and plays last year then Wes could still be on this team and we would be going to the NCAA tourny.

    But yes Mac did have a lot less to work with than the others.


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  13. #13
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    Re: Coaching changes

    Quote Originally Posted by CyclonesRule View Post
    If I recall Orr very much wanted his long time assistant Jim Hallihan to be his succssor.
    As I recall, the big whig that Floyd had in his corner was Gary Thompson. Not only did he support Floyd, but I believe he was actively involved in the hiring.



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    Re: Coaching changes

    Quote Originally Posted by jaretac View Post
    The Morgan firing was a brutal coaching change, about as bad as it could be, where the other coaching changes were really not that bad.
    The firing of Snyder at Mizzou was an equally bad firing. Nevertheless, Missouri has turned things around alot quicker than has Iowa State.


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    Re: Coaching changes

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskaguy View Post
    The firing of Snyder at Mizzou was an equally bad firing. Nevertheless, Missouri has turned things around alot quicker than has Iowa State.
    Snyder was an absolutely awful coach...good recruiter...horrible, horrible coach...that guy could do less with more than about anyone out there...



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