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  1. #1
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    Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    After every loss in either FB or BB, there are those who are critical of either coaches or players, particularly coaches, and those who are quick to defend said coaches with 'what did you expect, ISU is not Duke (BB) or USC (FB)'.

    So with that in mind, I thought I would lay out what my baseline expectations would be for both ISU FB and men's BB based on 25 years of being an ISU fan.

    For FB, I envision a program that will never have the financial werewithal to be a USC or OSU or... My expectations for the program would be that it should:
    1. Reach a bowl game at least every other season (32 bowl games and only a 6-6 record make this very feasible in my mind).
    2. Once every 5 - 7 years it should reach 8-9 wins
    3. Once every 7-10 years compete for a conference title and go to a really special bowl game. (Holiday or above).
    I think the baseline minimum number of wins for the program should be 5 in a down year (3 nonconference, 2 conference). Creative scheduling ie. soft opponents should help. BTW - as I have previously posted, the biggest hitch to ISU's success over the years has been losing not to NU or OU, but to teams that it should beat (UNI, Toledo).

    For basketball, my expectations are a little higher:
    1. Postseason play (NCAA or NIT) 2 out of every 3 seasons.
    2. Once every five years, finish in the top 3 of the Big 12 and advance to the Sweet Sixteen of the NCAA Tournament.
    3. Once every 7 - 10 years, win the Big 12 Conference and advance deep into the NCAA Tournament.
    The minimum number of wins I would expect in BB each season would be 17 - 19 depending on the strength of the nonconference schedule. To use this year as an example, ISU should be at least 16-4 right now. Again, as in FB, ISU's problem is not in losing to UT or KU, it is losing to the likes of Hawaii, SDSU, Drake, and CU.

    As for the off the field/court items, I expect the program to be relatively clean: no athletes with 0.0 GPAs, no criminals. I don't expect that the players would be perfect students or athletes just want to avoid egregious breeches of standards.

    FB obviously is the engine. As JP has said, if ISU were to win in FB, the place would explode. I firmly believe that as well. Sorry for the length of the post, interested to read what others expectations are.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Good post.



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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    My bare minimum expectations are that every player that is here for their entire 4 years plays in a bowl game or NCAA tournament game.



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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    I'm going to take a risk here and comment on this post knowing that I will probably regret it since cydude16 is on here and will probably chew me out for what I'm about to say but, that said, what happens when we don't meet your expectations? For example, you say that our minimum number of wins should be five or more and we go, lets say, 2-10. I don't think it is realistic to expect that we should have atleast 5 wins a year. Exibit A: This year.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Quote Originally Posted by NickDavis View Post
    I'm going to take a risk here and comment on this post knowing that I will probably regret it since cydude16 is on here and will probably chew me out for what I'm about to say but, that said, what happens when we don't meet your expectations? For example, you say that our minimum number of wins should be five or more and we go, lets say, 2-10. I don't think it is realistic to expect that we should have atleast 5 wins a year. Exibit A: This year.
    Expect better results next year then the year before. It's simple. Bring in better athletes/coaches, but not always go to the fire the head coach route. Great for calling me out. Is that civil enough for you?



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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Beat the teams you should, and if you don't; make up for it with a W you shouldn't have won.

    I don't like football losing to UNIs/Toledos/Kent States but I could stomach it with an upset of a NU/Mizzou/OSU to make up for it. We haven't made up for the losses we shouldn't have had.

    Same in basketball - Can't lose to SDSU/Colorado/Hawaii/Drake/Iowa and not make up for it with an upset of a KU/Texas/Oklahoma/Mizzou

    My bball expectations are a little higher as well. I think we should consistently be a top half of the big 12 team with our bball facilities/Hilton/great fans. I think we should be in the tourney on an average of every other year (it's be weird to go every other year, but more likely a 5 times in a 10 year span type of deal) And be in the NIT the other years we are not. ISU should not be ending basketball season with losing records (conf records might be losing ones sometimes, but we should make up for those years with nonconf wins) Our recent records in basketball have been very un-Cyclone like...I mean 4 years without a tourney appearance is not acceptable as fans. We should expect to be there. Also maybe go on a run and win a big 12 tourney once every 8-10 years.

    In football, I expect a bowl an average of every other year as well. I mean 64 of the 120 teams go bowling. I do expect the rebulding years to be bad this past years' 2-10 is a little extreme, but I expect there to be growing pains with a 3 or 4 win season here and there, but to eventually come back with some 7 win seasons and compete for the top of the north, it is very hard to compete with the south but it is possible and we've done it before. But we need to start beating the Kent States/UNLVs/Toledos/UNIs first and then move onto beating CU/KSU/Baylor/A&M

    I am not calling for any coaches head or for the AD's, but I just don't like it when fans take 2-10 years in football and sub .500 years and no postseason at all and act like IT should be the expected at Iowa State.

    The fact is we have good facilities and I know every fanbase would like to say it, but I firmly believe we have the most loyal fans in the nation (that's what drew me to being a ISU fan in the firstplace away from the hawkeyes.) the people. the fanbase. And our expectations should be higher. I really want nothing more than a big 12 champ game birth and a bowl game and a ncaa tourney run to revitalize this fanbase. It sounds greedy - but we honestly deserve it.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Quote Originally Posted by CyDude16 View Post
    Expect better results next year then the year before. It's simple. Bring in better athletes/coaches, but not always go to the fire the head coach route. Great for calling me out. Is that civil enough for you?
    Very.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Quote Originally Posted by NickDavis View Post
    I'm going to take a risk here and comment on this post knowing that I will probably regret it since cydude16 is on here and will probably chew me out for what I'm about to say but, that said, what happens when we don't meet your expectations? For example, you say that our minimum number of wins should be five or more and we go, lets say, 2-10. I don't think it is realistic to expect that we should have atleast 5 wins a year. Exibit A: This year.
    Obviously one year would not/should not destroy an otherwise good career. If however, the program is consistently underachieving, then absolutely a change should be made. For instance, I have been fairly consistent in saying that 4 years should be enough time to show results in both sports. (Again, if the Pres of the US is held to this standard, I think a FB or BB coach can be as well).

    I just happen to believe that a 2-3 win season in FB or a 12-14 win season in BB should be the extremely rare exception rather than the rule. Again, in my mind the problem with ISU athletics is not that it loses to the likes of OU or UT or KU, rather that it loses to CU or Toledo or SDSU. Those are the losses that lead me to criticize coaches because, frankly, those are games that ISU should almost never lose.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik4Cy View Post
    Beat the teams you should, and if you don't; make up for it with a W you shouldn't have won.

    I don't like football losing to UNIs/Toledos/Kent States but I could stomach it with an upset of a NU/Mizzou/OSU to make up for it. We haven't made up for the losses we shouldn't have had.

    Same in basketball - Can't lose to SDSU/Colorado/Hawaii/Drake/Iowa and not make up for it with an upset of a KU/Texas/Oklahoma/Mizzou

    My bball expectations are a little higher as well. I think we should consistently be a top half of the big 12 team with our bball facilities/Hilton/great fans. I think we should be in the tourney on an average of every other year (it's be weird to go every other year, but more likely a 5 times in a 10 year span type of deal) And be in the NIT the other years we are not. ISU should not be ending basketball season with losing records (conf records might be losing ones sometimes, but we should make up for those years with nonconf wins) Our recent records in basketball have been very un-Cyclone like...I mean 4 years without a tourney appearance is not acceptable as fans. We should expect to be there. Also maybe go on a run and win a big 12 tourney once every 8-10 years.

    In football, I expect a bowl an average of every other year as well. I mean 64 of the 120 teams go bowling. I do expect the rebulding years to be bad this past years' 2-10 is a little extreme, but I expect there to be growing pains with a 3 or 4 win season here and there, but to eventually come back with some 7 win seasons and compete for the top of the north, it is very hard to compete with the south but it is possible and we've done it before. But we need to start beating the Kent States/UNLVs/Toledos/UNIs first and then move onto beating CU/KSU/Baylor/A&M

    I am not calling for any coaches head or for the AD's, but I just don't like it when fans take 2-10 years in football and sub .500 years and no postseason at all and act like IT should be the expected at Iowa State.

    The fact is we have good facilities and I know every fanbase would like to say it, but I firmly believe we have the most loyal fans in the nation (that's what drew me to being a ISU fan in the firstplace away from the hawkeyes.) the people. the fanbase. And our expectations should be higher. I really want nothing more than a big 12 champ game birth and a bowl game and a ncaa tourney run to revitalize this fanbase. It sounds greedy - but we honestly deserve it.
    This is great! This is almost exactly where I am at as well.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    I think there is a misconception between was fans expectations are and what is accepted.

    I'm a fierce defender of the current AD, coach(s) only because I'm of the opinion that canning a coach should be an absolute last resort move in college athletics.

    I think a lot of fans live in a dream world and expect us to get any coach we want when in fact the exact opposite it true.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    I also look at it this way...

    Put any other coach (no really, any other coach) in Gmacs shoes dealing with the exact same stuff over the last few years and I think we are in the same position.

    That's what I look at. Could any coach really have done better given the history? To me that answer is a resounding no.

    And I don't play the "what if" game and assume just because we have another coach a player doesn't transfer or keeps his butt out of trouble.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBake View Post
    I think there is a misconception between was fans expectations are and what is accepted.

    I'm a fierce defender of the current AD, coach(s) only because I'm of the opinion that canning a coach should be an absolute last resort move in college athletics.

    I think a lot of fans live in a dream world and expect us to get any coach we want when in fact the exact opposite it true.
    Bake,

    I don't expect ISU to get any coach they want and I certainly don't live in a dream world. But there comes a point where it simply isn't working and it is time to try something/someone new. Now there are extremes to this that should not be emulated (Raiders - Al Davis, Redskins - Daniel Synder), but I think 4 years is enough time to evaluate a coach and give him the opportunity to implement a program.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    The original post hit the nail right on the head. There is absolutely no reason why ISU can't achieve those levels of success. None whatsoever. Obviously there will be the anomaly, but the potential exists for the football and basketball programs to be at that level.


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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Wouldn't you say these are the baseline expectations of every fanbase that isn't consistantly top 4 in a BCS conference?

    Not everyone can thrive every year. It's not possible. Unfortunately, because of geographic and financial limitation, we are more likely to have lower lows than others.



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    Re: Baseline expectations - FB and Men's BB

    Given that 64 teams go bowling and the number of bowl tie-ins that the Big 12 has, I think the minimum expectation should be bowling 3 out of 4 years, especially since if you take care of business in the pre-conference season, you only need 2-3 conference wins...


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