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    Winning with less talent

    I think this should be a premium. I like options in guys like Fullmer, but most of their career they've had talent to play with. I firmly believe, in hindsight of course, Chizik vastly underestimated the job he was tasked with here. A guy like Fullmer, Tubberville, etc - could likely suffer the same issues.

    When you look at Hill, Patterson, etc - these guys have proven they can win, and against BCS schools, with talent that wasn't the best available.

    If beggers can be choosers, this would probably be something at the top of my list of requirements.



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    BINGO!



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    I think you are right, this has to be one of the important qualifications for those interviewed. With that said though, I am not really an anti-Fulmite as some people on the board. So the person perfect for the job is someone who can make schemes to win with less talent and one who has the ability to recruit better talent. They go hand in hand. I don't think we had a competent coach these past two seasons, because I think we had very winnable games with the talent we had. Going back to the "blessing in disguise"...get a competent coach in here that can help coach us to some wins!



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    Obviously, this is why some of us were on the Gill bandwagon. This is my dream qualification too. I like to know that someone has already done what needs done here. I'm not real convinced that the guys from the "power" schools have done that.

    Still, I'm not on the anti-Fulmer bandwagon, either. I'm on the wait-and-see-what-JP-actually-does bandwagon.


    Since we are an elite team now, let's go get that One Cyclone Moment.
    Make this one for the ages!




    http://rememberingdoria.wordpress.com/

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    Re: Winning with less talent

    I completely disagree! It is all the same

    Did Tennessee have more talent than ISU? Yes. But they were playing against teams like Florida/Georgia, etc who had equal to better talent.

    Fresno St doesn't do more with less. They beat up on non BCS teams who they are more than likely more talented then.

    Does Graham win with less talent than Iowa State has? Yes, but they are playing teams less talented than teams Iowa State will be playing.

    Once again it's all relative



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    How about we win with MORE talent.

    Fulmer would bring more talent.



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Clones85' View Post
    I completely disagree! It is all the same

    Did Tennessee have more talent than ISU? Yes. But they were playing against teams like Florida/Georgia, etc who had equal to better talent.

    Fresno St doesn't do more with less. They beat up on non BCS teams who they are more than likely more talented then.

    Does Graham win with less talent than Iowa State has? Yes, but they are playing teams less talented than teams Iowa State will be playing.

    Once again it's all relative
    But teams like TCU and Fresno State step toe to toe with BCS teams in non-conference and have a much better showing than we do in our conference games.



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    Just posted this on a different thread but itll be much more useful on this one. Fulmer was very successful but he also had loads of talent. The question is will he be able to "coach" as good with a team that has a huge talent gap compared to Tennessee. The Big 12 is on the same level if not better than the SEC so the change in competition shouldnt be an issue.
    Tennessee Volunteers football - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    Did Boise State have the same talent level as OU a couple years ago, i dont think so. It's all about recruiting and getting the players that fit into your system.



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    Quote Originally Posted by FirNaTine View Post
    Did Boise State have the same talent level as OU a couple years ago, i dont think so. It's all about recruiting and getting the players that fit into your system.


    and a ***-load of trick plays


    Carrying the banner for ISU.


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    Re: Winning with less talent

    I Think a lot of what you say is correct 22. OU, and probably most of the Texas schools will have our number for sure. After my revisiting of this past season, I still stand pretty firm that we weren't out-talented in about half of our games. We were out-coached. Kansas, aTm, Nebraska, KState, CU and UNLV. I really don't think those teams impressed me as far as talent on the Football field goes. I even remember commenting to my brother during the Nebraska game how much more even it looked on the field, just in sheer athletes to athletes. Look.

    Having said that, yeah, for us to compete regulalarly and at least get a foot in the door of the Big XII championship game. We are first and foremost going to need a great coach. A superb X's and O's kind of guy that can take what he has and either mold them or mold the team to fit the players. That's what I believe our biggest weakness of the coaches we had was. "This is what we are running becauase this is what I know." seemed to be their montra. Even though it was clear we were not running the Defense we should have been. I really don't think the coaches knew how to coach anything else.



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Clones85' View Post
    I completely disagree! It is all the same

    Did Tennessee have more talent than ISU? Yes. But they were playing against teams like Florida/Georgia, etc who had equal to better talent.

    Fresno St doesn't do more with less. They beat up on non BCS teams who they are more than likely more talented then.

    Does Graham win with less talent than Iowa State has? Yes, but they are playing teams less talented than teams Iowa State will be playing.

    Once again it's all relative
    Yup, all points are valid.

    Regarding the section I bolded - we play against teams that are just as talented and this year looked to be more talented. We won't face many of them in '09, but we face a host of them in 2010 & 2011.

    My belief though, is what was posted below...no sense retyping it...

    Quote Originally Posted by RyCy04 View Post
    But teams like TCU and Fresno State step toe to toe with BCS teams in non-conference and have a much better showing than we do in our conference games.
    In order to get better talent, we're going to need to get a coach that can win with less talent - then we can go after the big fish.



  13. #13
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    Re: Winning with less talent

    All I am saying is that Graham winning doesn't mean he is a better coach than Fulmer winning, just b/c he has less talent. Tulsa plays against less talented teams. Fulmer plays against more talented teams.

    Winning with less is extremely overrated and looked at the wrong way, b/c they are playing against less.



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    Quote Originally Posted by Clones85' View Post
    I completely disagree! It is all the same

    Did Tennessee have more talent than ISU? Yes. But they were playing against teams like Florida/Georgia, etc who had equal to better talent.

    Fresno St doesn't do more with less. They beat up on non BCS teams who they are more than likely more talented then.

    Does Graham win with less talent than Iowa State has? Yes, but they are playing teams less talented than teams Iowa State will be playing.

    Once again it's all relative
    That is a valid point.

    But, it is one thing to go tell a talented player what to do, however, it is all in how you develop the players that aren't like that, and how you act with them.



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    Re: Winning with less talent

    Quote Originally Posted by FirNaTine View Post
    Did Boise State have the same talent level as OU a couple years ago, i dont think so. It's all about recruiting and getting the players that fit into your system.
    You have one example. I have 100 examples.

    Quote Originally Posted by ISUFan22 View Post
    Yup, all points are valid.

    Regarding the section I bolded - we play against teams that are just as talented and this year looked to be more talented. We won't face many of them in '09, but we face a host of them in 2010 & 2011.

    My belief though, is what was posted below...no sense retyping it...
    I understand, but besides TCU's win over Oklahoma name one win TCU had over a team that was more talented than them. Same goes for Fresno St.

    TCU has beaten BCS teams, but they are more talented than them. TCU sadly has more talent than ISU at this point



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