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  1. #1
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    If Berryman played for Iowa

    He would still be on the team. And you can't even argue this point. He would not have even spent the night in jail in Iowa City, let alone 200 some days (which is ridiculous). Hell we probably would not have even heard about any of this. Him being in the bar at 20 would be no big deal being as you can get in the bars at 19 in Iowa City. Matt Roth as a 19 year old, took on 4 bouncers at a bar and wasn't even suspended. He was even drinking there underage. Also beat up a friend of mine's cousin and the cops told him to get out of there. Talked to a cop in Iowa City who hates the Hawks and their coaching staff b/c he says we don't even know the half of the stuff the athletes get away with there.

    Point I am trying to make. Berryman is an idiot for doing what he did. Robertson is an idiot for what he did. But if you want to win Big 12 titles, maybe you should be more like the teams that let their players get away with everything. The team may get a bad rap for a week but that is quickly erased when they are winning conference titles. People, especially in the media, have short memories when winning is taking place. If your going to be competitive you have to be able to get your players out of things like this.

    I know a lot of you argue that b/c they are players they shouldn't be able to get away with all kinds of things. I totally agree with this. But if me or you hit a kid and took his cell phone we spend one night in jail. Not over 200. There was something wrong with that. If me or you are in the bar at the age of 20, we are fine. Not him. I just always scratch my head and wonder how the Cyclone coaching staff could let there best player and most promising player go off and do these things. You would think they would have a tighter leash on him. They can't babysit him and he is responsible, but when you put so much stock into this one player, you have to protect that investment.

    This whole topic has been burning deep inside me since he got kicked off the team. I understood why Mac did it and agreed that it needed to be done. Then the little devil in me wished we could be more like the SEC schools and the Pukeyes and not let our players get away with what resembles murder. Let's hear the agreements/disagreements



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Quote Originally Posted by seneca4MVP View Post
    He would still be on the team. And you can't even argue this point. He would not have even spent the night in jail in Iowa City, let alone 200 some days (which is ridiculous). Hell we probably would not have even heard about any of this. Him being in the bar at 20 would be no big deal being as you can get in the bars at 19 in Iowa City. Matt Roth as a 19 year old, took on 4 bouncers at a bar and wasn't even suspended. He was even drinking there underage. Also beat up a friend of mine's cousin and the cops told him to get out of there. Talked to a cop in Iowa City who hates the Hawks and their coaching staff b/c he says we don't even know the half of the stuff the athletes get away with there.

    Point I am trying to make. Berryman is an idiot for doing what he did. Robertson is an idiot for what he did. But if you want to win Big 12 titles, maybe you should be more like the teams that let their players get away with everything. The team may get a bad rap for a week but that is quickly erased when they are winning conference titles. People, especially in the media, have short memories when winning is taking place. If your going to be competitive you have to be able to get your players out of things like this.

    I know a lot of you argue that b/c they are players they shouldn't be able to get away with all kinds of things. I totally agree with this. But if me or you hit a kid and took his cell phone we spend one night in jail. Not over 200. There was something wrong with that. If me or you are in the bar at the age of 20, we are fine. Not him. I just always scratch my head and wonder how the Cyclone coaching staff could let there best player and most promising player go off and do these things. You would think they would have a tighter leash on him. They can't babysit him and he is responsible, but when you put so much stock into this one player, you have to protect that investment.

    This whole topic has been burning deep inside me since he got kicked off the team. I understood why Mac did it and agreed that it needed to be done. Then the little devil in me wished we could be more like the SEC schools and the Pukeyes and not let our players get away with what resembles murder. Let's hear the agreements/disagreements
    Integrity my friend, integrity. We are not like the other state university, and I am proud of it.


    --Luck of the Cyrish--






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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Quote Originally Posted by mike4cy View Post
    Integrity my friend, integrity. We are not like the other state university, and I am proud of it.
    I guess your memory is a bit lacking. You seem to forget a certain player who JOhnny Orr got off with his testimony.



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    I guess your memory is a bit lacking. You seem to forget a certain player who JOhnny Orr got off with his testimony.
    Sorry, what? Lawrence Phillips?


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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Quote Originally Posted by mike4cy View Post
    Integrity my friend, integrity. We are not like the other state university, and I am proud of it.
    My point exactly. I would never want our team or our school administration to stoop to the level of the Hawks, even if it means for a conference championship. Some things are worth more. Ethical treatment of troubled situations is where a program can build prestige. I'd rather have us known for a football program full of quality characters that people are not afraid will rape and/or rob them.





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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Quote Originally Posted by bigred View Post
    I guess your memory is a bit lacking. You seem to forget a certain player who JOhnny Orr got off with his testimony.

    I don't really think a Husker fan should have much to talk about on this matter....okay? Thanks.



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Quote Originally Posted by isu_bub View Post
    My point exactly. I would never want our team or our school administration to stoop to the level of the Hawks, even if it means for a conference championship. Some things are worth more. Ethical treatment of troubled situations is where a program can build prestige. I'd rather have us known for a football program full of quality characters that people are not afraid will rape and/or rob them.
    Agreed. I like to think that we have a quality program and in no way do I want us to be like the Pukeyes where you can steal things and only get a one game suspension. But I disagree if you think that some of that is more important than winning championships. People in Iowa may hear of a Berryman case but not in the country. People in the country do hear about a Big 12 North title. Recruits hear that and it makes us better. I want to be a clean program as well but sometimes a couple team rules being bent will help you out in the long run



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    I can tell you with certainty that when Earle Bruce was putting together three straight 8-3 seasons and had Iowa State in the top 10 at one point, he covered for a lot of players that were smoking grass. Even the AD covered for them. Wayne Stanley sat out one game for getting caught, and they called it a twisted ankle. After the season, the truth came out. Could Bruce have put up those seasons if he had kicked everyone off that probably deserved it...no way!



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    How can you speculate that Berryman would still be on the team? You really don't have anything to go on.

    Can't we let this Berryman-embarrassing-ISU debacle die already?



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Quote Originally Posted by isu_bub View Post
    I would never want our team or our school administration to stoop to the level of the Hawks, even if it means for a conference championship. Some things are worth more. Ethical treatment of troubled situations is where a program can build prestige. I'd rather have us known for a football program full of quality characters that people are not afraid will rape and/or rob them.
    Ask Mac how he feels about those statements. He lost his job for not winning.

    I agree with you but these coaches get paid big money to win...if they don't, they are out of a job. Some will win at any cost, others run a very ethical program, and many are in between.



  11. #11
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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    This is a difficult argument, and it is unfortunate that all universities cannot complete with a equal code of ethics and morals and not make exceptions for winning.

    On a state level, I feel most Cyclone fans believe our program to be a higher standard of character and ethics than Iowa. We have pride and integrity in our programs ethics and decisions on objectionable matters in the past.

    We tend to label Iowa as the hive of scum and villainy. Although this may be true, it seems Iowa works so hard to keep these types of things out of the spotlight. Like seneca4mvp said, The team may get a bad rap for a week but that is quickly erased when they are winning conference titles or going to new years day bowl games. People, especially in the media, have short memories when winning is taking place.

    As matter of fact on a National scale, I would wager that the average fan and media personallity would view ISU as the more (or at least equally) morally objectionable school of the 2 schools recently. We have the whole Larry saga, and the berryman thing, and then when the allegations of impropriety came out against Morgan. I don't think the department handled the first 2 situations well as far as the PR is concerned, fortunately, with the arrival of Pollard, he got out in front of the Morgan situation before it transformed into something larger.

    Maybe I don't know this because I don't live outside of the state, but I don't think many fans and media from around the country look at the university of Iowa and see it as a cesspool of objectionable behavior, however true or untrue it may be. There might be a lot going on over there that lacks integrity and class, but what you don't know (or the media doesn't know) won't hurt you.

    As hawk fans know, this attitude of win at all costs did come back to bite them in the ***, with the whole Pierre Pierce situation. They took the road of less class in favor of winning, but the wins didn't come, a second offense was committed, and now the basketball program is a shell of what it once was under Dr. Tom.

    Everybody plays by the same rules on the field, but off the field, its a much different story, and frankly a story that makes it harder for teams with a moral fiber to compete against the Miami's of the NCAA. but when the wins come (they have and they will in the future) they are that much sweeter.

    That's integrity, knowing you did the right thing even if most others do not. ISU has paid a deep price for its decisions (setting the bball program back 3 years, removing one of the best cyclone defensive ends on a already unproven defense, possibly setting in motion the downward spiral of the 2006 football season), but at least Cyclone fans can have pride in their program and sleep soundly at night.


    Last edited by BigDISU1; 12-12-2006 at 08:48 AM.

  12. #12
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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Berryman, and Robertson for that matter, both knew the rules that they were expected to follow in order to represent ISU as a scholarship athlete and both made deliberate decisions to break those rules, end of story. I know Robertson said it must have been an ingredient in a GNC over the counter vitamin, but still. Follow the rules.

    I thought it would be tough to replace Mac integrity wise, but listening to Chizik's interview on Cotlar last week, he said something that really impressed me. He said he looked at himself as an educator more then a coach. He said one of his main responsibilities was to prepare his football team for life after football. That doesn't include giving someone a break when they deliberately broke a rule because that break gives them a sense of entitlement to make the same stupid choice later on and expect breaks again. Enforcing consequences on someone for their bad choice forces them to mature and act as expected or else. Doing what the Fusker and Pukeye sports administration does in giving breaks turns athletes into thugs like Pierre Pierce, TO, Lawrence Phillips. As said very well above, I will take a program with integrity over winning championships in a split second.



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    Very well said BIGDISU!



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    I believe there IS a point to this Berryman discussion.
    1. An impact player like JB can have a huge impact on a football team
    2. ISU does not have the depth to replace that kind of player
    3. We are not a program that will probably ever have the depth of a Texas or Oklahoma, and impact players are hard to come by
    4. Iowa may be in the same boat, but they make sure their impact players stay on the team.
    I'm not saying he didn't get what he deserved, I'm sure Mac wanted him on the team more than anyone. And maybe ISU should be squeeky clean. We all have to realize that being squeeky clean comes with a cost...and that cost may be winning games. I like us for that and hope we continue, but it's a challenge when other teams don't play by the same rules.



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    Re: If Berryman played for Iowa

    I guess I don't follow the Hawks enough to bring up examples but 1 guy that I think you can compare to Berryman that Iowa got fed up with and eventually kicked off the team was Benny Sapp who is now playing for the Kansas City Chiefs in the NFL. Benny had several run-ins with the law just like Berryman and he didn't even get convicted as a felon if I remember correctly.

    I think this is kind of a moot point really. I'm more worried about how ISU runs their program than Iowa. If Iowa wants to keep giving thugs second, third, more chances etc. then that is the way they will be. Eventually that stuff comes back to bite you in the butt like it did with us with Berryman. When we let him back on the team after the felony charge there were a lot of folks against it then. When he proved he could not be trusted to keep his nose out of trouble again for the final time that just proved the point that you sometimes have to just cut your ties. Look at Iowa and the Pierce incident, similar kind of thing.

    We just need to recruit good players that have good character and have an iron hand of discipline from day 1 and these incidents should be more isolated and not a common occurance.



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