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  1. #1
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    Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    Some may agree, some may disagree, some may cry exuses but I do believe our fate was set and is ever more so apparent these days was set with the creation of the BIG 12

    FACT: ISU is the northern most team in a conference set-up latitudial (North to South geographically)

    Could Iowa State compete with teams in the BIG 10 ?
    Big 10 conference is LONGITUDIALLY based- East to West

    I would argue an advantages of the BIG 10 is that you do not recruit against each other geographically. Even Michigan may be seeing the difficulties of recruiting southern talent to the north. Within the conference though talent levels are hidden.

    Are we that far behind the lacks of Minnesota ? Purdue ? won't even mention Iowa.. ok I did. My point is these teams are on even grounds at least in terms of geographical recruiting. When these Big Ten teams however play against southern based teams we often see the differences in talent. Yes, on a one-game basis their are Big Ten wins of SEC and Big 12 south teams, but week in week out... season to season I argue the southern teams are talently richer, easier recruiting sell.

    Baylor can even entice Texas kids to stay close where it is at least warm and their families and friends can still visit and watch. I think the old "Nebraska" will never be because of this fact. In the past they recruited on tradition and winning.... the kids these days don't even remember those days of Nebraska "tradition" A kid in south Florida may choose to stay home at the University of South Florida versus the northern winters. How about the tradition of Notre Dame ? Name another conference where geographicall it is so different from team to team.

    I know it sounds like excuses - but it does make it hard in recruiting and will take a "gimmick offense" or "special locally rooted" coach to build a foundation and reasons for kids to come here and play here. "playing time" goes so far.... winning is still important and a football teams takes more than just a handful of players to sustain it. I'm not saying McCarney should be offered to come back or whether he would even be interested... but a "McCarney-type coach" is what we need. Not the next young up-and coming "pup" McCarney set the pieces in place and was only 2 kicks aways from that "next level" we thought we needed. 2 years later.... (Be careful what we ask for). Oh yeah.... it can be done at ISU- its just way tougher. The conference didn't do us any favors in the way it was set-up. 3 losing seasons ago... We were 7-4. Remember ? 7-4 with three ROAD - OVERTIME losses (Nebraska, Missouri, Kansas) We had the talent, we had the pieces in place to be the '07 darlings like Kansas and Missouri. 2 Kicks away.... that is what I want to see at ISU... even if the kicks come up short or wide right... just give us a shot- be competitive and respected on and off the field. I want 7-5's 8-4's and even 5-7's if it means stability and done the right way. Just my thoughts...

    Go Clones !
    Is it bad to say we need another McCarney ??

    Scott in Ankeny



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    There is a slight amount of truth in what you say, but let's face it, ISU hadn't had much success prior to the Big 12 either. ISU/Ames is not exactly an attractive location for most recruits, even those from the Midwest. K-State is the only BCS school that I can really think of that falls into a similar situation, and Ames is actually colder than Manhatten.

    The difference between Iowa City/Kinnick and Ames/JT are much larger than most Cyclone fans want to admit.

    I do think that we need to find a Midwestern guy, that will "fit in" at a place like Ames/ISU. I believe that is our best hope. If we think the answer is to hire a Texas guy, so that we can continue losing recruits to Baylor and Houston, then I think we are 100% guaranteed more of the same.



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    Quote Originally Posted by acgclone View Post
    There is a slight amount of truth in what you say, but let's face it, ISU hadn't had much success prior to the Big 12 either. ISU/Ames is not exactly an attractive location for most recruits, even those from the Midwest. K-State is the only BCS school that I can really think of that falls into a similar situation, and Ames is actually colder than Manhatten.

    The difference between Iowa City/Kinnick and Ames/JT are much larger than most Cyclone fans want to admit.

    I do think that we need to find a Midwestern guy, that will "fit in" at a place like Ames/ISU. I believe that is our best hope. If we think the answer is to hire a Texas guy, so that we can continue losing recruits to Baylor and Houston, then I think we are 100% guaranteed more of the same.
    I am curious to know what these Large differences are, that is in terms of towns. I agree, about Kinnick vs. JTS. I'm not so sure about Ames itself though. Other than Ames is flat.

    BTW, I'm not denying any large differences, just curious to hear your thoughs.



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    I just think it is a much more attractive atmosphere for college aged males. Better night life, better looking women. It's not even close in these two categories, IMO.

    Add in a decent amount of tradition and some national success and it's a no-brainer for most out of state recruits.



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    And my point is even when Iowa State has beaten Iowa.... We may have had a worse record overall given the magnitude in the overall talents difference in the Big12 versus the Big10 and weather does affect talent options.... That's why we are a Basketball school right ? I mean Volleyball school ! Go Clones ! Elite 8 in V-ball touney !

    Go Clones



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    You are stating the obvious.
    We are at a definite disadvantage. We always will be. It will be a monumentous task to get some landmark victories and seasons, but that coach is out there that is up to the task.
    We have had such golden opportunities with Nebraska and Mizzou down lately. Mizzou is naturally situated with two Major metro areas to be much more successful. NU has history. KU has a-holes and cheaters helping them.
    We--as in the athletic Department--has to fight through these given ground rules about Ames.

    And one more thing--If a kid is looking at schools and his major consideration is the club scene and the blonde hotties hosting him with the promise of coed love, I don't want that kid getting a scholarship at Ames anyway...it will only be trouble for all. Study our history. Trainwreck.



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    yes, texas high school teams have more athletic talent/depth at the skill positions. But sometimes they don't end up that much better for several reasons. midwest recruits are not as football developed (no spring ball etc), and catch up. plus they work harder in general, and by the time they are 5th year srs, are actually ahead of their higher recruited counterparts. football is so much more than just athletic talent coming out of high school. it is about talent development, team, hard work, repitition, S & C, and many other things. iowa state needs to primarily recruit the midwest. we do have a little disadvantage because minnesota and eastern iowa and east is big ten country. but we can recruit adequate kids here. look who iowa is beating for most of their recruits--MAC teams. midwest kids are more likely to be here in 4 years. there were alot of close games this year. a hardworking, cohesive, experienced team will win the majority of those games.



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    If you think a kid can tell the difference between Des moines/ Ames and Iowa City/Cedar Rapids you are crazy. They are both small college towns with semi decent size cities farily close. Des Moines would trump CR though. Sometimes I wish ISU's campus was picked up and put in Des Moines so at least we recruits could get an urban feel while going to school. (as much as you can in Iowa at least).



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    Quote Originally Posted by HandSanitizer View Post
    If you think a kid can tell the difference between Des moines/ Ames and Iowa City/Cedar Rapids you are crazy. They are both small college towns with semi decent size cities farily close. Des Moines would trump CR though. Sometimes I wish ISU's campus was picked up and put in Des Moines so at least we recruits could get an urban feel while going to school. (as much as you can in Iowa at least).
    Sorry, Des Moines has nothing to do with it. Most of these kids don't even have cars. Ames and Iowa City are on completely different levels and quite frankly, there are not many college towns (BCS schools) that I've been to that are as boring as Ames.

    Also, don't kid yourself if you think this doesn't enter into the equation. They are 18-23 y/o kids. That type of stuff is important to most guys in that age range. The point is, if you can find a college town with better coeds and bars, AND a better FB tradition, why wouldn't you chose that school.



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    Quote Originally Posted by HandSanitizer View Post
    If you think a kid can tell the difference between Des moines/ Ames and Iowa City/Cedar Rapids you are crazy. They are both small college towns with semi decent size cities farily close. Des Moines would trump CR though. Sometimes I wish ISU's campus was picked up and put in Des Moines so at least we recruits could get an urban feel while going to school. (as much as you can in Iowa at least).
    For every kid who wants an "urban feel" (what the f&^& does that mean? That was rhetorical, I know), you will have midwestern young men who do not want an "urban feel" and embrace what Ames and Iowa are. That is who we want to recruit. See several posts above for similar comments. Urban Feel?....wow. wtf.



  11. #11
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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    Believe it or not, before attending ISU I wasn't so anti-Iowa as I am now. I went on football recruiting visits to both Iowa and ISU. When I wasn't offered a scholarship by either one, I chose ISU because I liked it better than the U of I. I could be a huge minority, but ISU as a campus and school was much more apealing to me. The "Urban" environment didn't mean much at all to me. And ISU just seemed like more of what I expected in a college town.



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    I have been to Iowa City MANY times and all the athletes do the same thing as ISUs. Stand around the streets or in the bars and hang out. The main difference is the Bar age IMO.. I am just saying if you are from Alanta, tampa Bay, Houston whatever.....You are going to think both towns suck. Just my opinion and that is what I have heard and seen from different people around the country. We really don't need to go down the Iowa/ISU path right now though. We have enough problems.


    Last edited by HandSanitizer; 12-13-2008 at 03:39 PM.

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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    Quote Originally Posted by Clonefan94 View Post
    Believe it or not, before attending ISU I wasn't so anti-Iowa as I am now. I went on football recruiting visits to both Iowa and ISU. When I wasn't offered a scholarship by either one, I chose ISU because I liked it better than the U of I. I could be a huge minority, but ISU as a campus and school was much more apealing to me. The "Urban" environment didn't mean much at all to me. And ISU just seemed like more of what I expected in a college town.
    There is no doubt that there is a certain segment that falls into your same category and I love Ames as well. It's just not as appealing to 18-22 y/o's as most other major college towns I've been to.

    I believe we need to find a coach from the Midwest, as I think that recruiting Southern kids to cold-weather climates is getting tougher and tougher. I also believe there are plenty of good athletes in the Midwest, that would come to Ames/ISU.



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds


    Couple things here...................

    I am a Hawk fan so several of you will automatically dismiss me as biased, but the same could be said for any of you as well so. I went to ISU and I have been to Iowa hundreds of times. As far as the urban, Chicago-land sprawl of a city/slash campus Ames isn't even comparable to IC so I think this fella is on to something. Iowa State's campus is fine and frankly probably more picturesque, but it is also more sterile than Iowa city as a whole (Ames is miles from campus or at least was when I went there) In fact born again Christain that I am I wouldn't want to live with in 50 miles of "liberal" IC, but college kids would I would assume. Though it’s debatable how much that does or doesn’t affect recruiting.

    As for the talent disparity, I have ran this down on here a myriad of times so I wont bore you with the details. But the Big 12 does not have more talent than the Big 10 on a year-to-year basis. I know ISU fans want this to be true, but it isn't. I only know of one way to even gauge this as far as “pure” talent, not wins but “talent” and that is how many kids each school sends on to the NFL. There is only one team in the Big 12 that has even remotely as much NFL alumni as UM & tOSU and that is Texas. The aforementioned teams that were compared to ISU and their 7 NFL alumni were Minne with 15, IOWA-24 & PU-26. I am not trying to be a jerk here but sincerely Iowa State doesn't have talent comparable to anyone in the Big 10 but possible IU. I think if you guys realize this you can evaluate your program more fairly and realize you aren't in too tough a conference, but really it sounds like the Big 12 isn't interested in playing fair "money" wise.

    With all that said I feel terrible about this for you guys. I really don't begrudge a coach for doing this and I said the same thing to maniacal Iowa fans years back. All the same it still blows especially in lieu of the fact that a scant few months ago it looked like things were looking up. Personally I agree with those who say he couldn't have spun back now and you should get a Midwest guy. I think a Turner Gill could light the plains up. He too me would have a GREAT chance of competing in the Big 12 because he knows what it's about.

    Lastly don't forget OU and Texas have and will struggle again one day. Have hope.

    Chad



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    Re: Big12 Conference set ISU on unfair grounds

    Quote Originally Posted by cmhawks99 View Post
    (Ames is miles from campus or at least was when I went there)
    Did you go to Iowa State in the late 1800's?



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