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  1. #1
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    Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    We all talk about the number of young players getting playing time for football. No one accepted the crappy season we just came out of... but I sensed people "get it" and are holding out hope due to the young team we fielded. There is a lot of talk about next year due to younger players getting experience... verus "trying to tie it to coaching." Some accepted on the field mistakes. Most know its a rebuilding thing.

    Now, look at the BB team. 11 freshman and sophs. Seniors are "OK" players, but our production comes from 1st or 2nd year players.

    People slam the BB team for mistakes and inconsistent play. That is what you get with youth. When FB players make major mistakes... we chalk it up to youth. When the BB team chokes a lead in Hawaii and against Drake, "some" people throw out bad coaching.

    Please dont tell me how different BB and FB are. I get that, but no one can convince me that youth is not a factor. Message: "hang in there" help will come with continued recruiting (remember... it was just a year or 2 ago when we only had a spattering of scholarship players on the squad), and help will come with experience. Unfortunately... we have neither at the moment.



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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    Some called it bad coaching for FB too. I would agree with some that a lot is due to young inexperience. I would also agree with some that there has been some poor coaching. The results are a mix of both, and both will likely improve.



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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    There are a few major differences in your comparison.

    One there are something like 65 scholarship players on a football team. 11 on both sides start, plus special teams. Basketball has 13 scholarships and only 5 players start. 1 or 2 key recruits can turn a program around in a second for basketball where as it takes numerous players and recruiting classes in football.

    Two. This is Mac's third season at the helm of the basketball program and we have not seen improvement from day one. We are seeing the same things we did when his first team stepped on the court.

    Three. GC hasn't had as many recruits leave his program. This is a big factor in where the basketball program is currently. He was able to use what Dan had left, namly Blyth and Meyer on O and Ruben and Bowen on Defense to make his first season somewhat reasonable. Where Gmac was unable to recruit the players left over from the Wayne Morgan era to help him transition into the next season.

    Youth on a football program in the second year of a head coach is somethign to look at as a positive. Youth on the basketball team after 3 years of a head coach and no shown improvement lead to the attitudes you are seeing this week.


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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    Quote Originally Posted by CyGuy33 View Post
    Two. This is Mac's third season at the helm of the basketball program and we have not seen improvement from day one. We are seeing the same things we did when his first team stepped on the court.
    This years team is head to toe MUCH better eight games into the season than either of the previous two were eight games into the season.



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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    Last year's team would have been a nightmare to watch in that halfcourt trap. This year's team could see it coming, and players responded appropriately, moving towards the ball, and moving the ball on towards a shot. That's an area of improvement.

    Of course, the "stage" is different, because they don't play football on hardwood floors.


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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    Looking back over the last two years, I think too much false hope was being fed to us. Not from the coaches and players, but from the people trying to fill seats and generate revenue. It worked to some extent, but now there are a lot of questions marks floating around and fans who want to believe, but just don't know anymore.

    Sure, there's a lot of youth on our teams, and that should stir some excitement. But don't think for a second that other teams don't have similar youth and better recruiting classes. At this point, the best thing to do is not get caught up in the hype and just sit back and believe it when you see it. Go to the games and continue donating money, of course. But let's be realistic.



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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    Quote Originally Posted by CycloneErik View Post
    Last year's team would have been a nightmare to watch in that halfcourt trap. This year's team could see it coming, and players responded appropriately, moving towards the ball, and moving the ball on towards a shot. That's an area of improvement.

    Of course, the "stage" is different, because they don't play football on hardwood floors.
    Looking at 06-07, we shot 40.8% for 63.6 points and 36.1 rebounds and they shot 42.2% for 65.4 points and 34.4 rebounds. Rebounds edge to us.

    Looking at 07-08, we shot 41.6% for 64.0 points and 34.8 rebounds and they shot 41.6% for 65.9 points and 36.3 rebounds. Closed the point gap by 0.3 points and loss three in rebounding differential.

    Looking at partial year 08-09 with the creampuffs, we shoot 44.3% for 67.5 points and 35.5 rebounds, and they shoot 36.1% for 59.4 points and 35.6 rebounds. Once we enter Big 12, these numbers will change and approach the above more than likely.

    Looking like the defense has improved slightly more than the offense.


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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    Quote Originally Posted by CyGuy33 View Post
    There are a few major differences in your comparison.

    One there are something like 65 scholarship players on a football team. 11 on both sides start, plus special teams. Basketball has 13 scholarships and only 5 players start. 1 or 2 key recruits can turn a program around in a second for basketball where as it takes numerous players and recruiting classes in football.

    Two. This is Mac's third season at the helm of the basketball program and we have not seen improvement from day one. We are seeing the same things we did when his first team stepped on the court.

    Three. GC hasn't had as many recruits leave his program. This is a big factor in where the basketball program is currently. He was able to use what Dan had left, namly Blyth and Meyer on O and Ruben and Bowen on Defense to make his first season somewhat reasonable. Where Gmac was unable to recruit the players left over from the Wayne Morgan era to help him transition into the next season.

    Youth on a football program in the second year of a head coach is somethign to look at as a positive. Youth on the basketball team after 3 years of a head coach and no shown improvement lead to the attitudes you are seeing this week.
    I agree 100%. How people can just sit back and blame "a young team" 3 years into a program that has accomplished nothing is beyond me.

    I still support this staff, both staffs, but when it comes to MBB this youth argument 3 years in doesn't hold any water. Gmac was given substantial talent and failed to hold on to any of it.



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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    The decision was made to go from a run and gun to a controlled environment and here we sit in year three.


    CFH HMagic bball season next year.
    Let my Fred's Four Horsemen ride: Georges, Hogue, Nader, and McKay.

  10. #10
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    Re: Basketball and Football... similar stages?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
    The decision was made to go from a run and gun to a controlled environment and here we sit in year three.
    I don't even care if we run and gun, but I would like to see SOME transitition. Watch KU - after a basket the point guard has the ball at half court before ISU can even get it inbounded. It just gives you so many more options, doesn't let the defense get set, and will lead to more points per game (and a few more turnovers).

    I just don't believe ISU can ever win consistently in the B12 if it doesn't average at least 70 ppg. And we aren't doing that against cupcakes.


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