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  1. #1
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    Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Just a topic for discussion.

    Seems like the rest of world stresses fundamental basketball a whole lot more than the US. The NBA is as athletic of a bunch of players as you'll find anywhere, but recently, haven't been able to beat the world competition. The High School and college kids want to play like the NBA stars, which is fast paced, one-on-one highlight reel stuff. In turn, those HS kids become the next generation college stars and then the next generation NBA players. This seems like a downward spiral.

    What happened to solid ball handling and shooting. Free throw percentage seems to be on decline as well. I remember when the ISU team as a WHOLE shot nearly 80%. Players like Hoiberg understood the game and could play with anyone despite not being the best althete on the team.

    I look at the future recruits that are considered best in the nation and I just don't see fundamentals. What I see are incredible althetes that can jump out of the gym and score using that ability. It seems that is what coaches in college are looking for as well.

    There are exceptions. When they come along, they stand out from the rest. Take Kevin Love, for example. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recru...ory?id=2677612
    ESPN is high on him because he plays fundamental basketball. I also thought Adam Morrison and JJ Redick were fundamental type players and they lead the nation in scoring.

    So, are basketball fundamentals from US high school kids a thing of the past?


    ISU Grad 1997.
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    Not in CO anymore but I'm not changing my name :)

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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    So your asking, what happened to Larry Bird and players like that? Good question.

    You post is the exact reason why I dont like NBA. Its a shame.


    "You must try to generate happiness within yourself. If you aren't happy in one place, chances are you won't be happy anyplace." -- Ernie Banks



  3. #3
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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Here was something I read this from Grant Wahl on SI.com regarding free throw percentages. Interesting stuff.
    Why is being a good free-throw shooter a lost art these days? Once upon a time, it seemed as though the best players (and teams) were also the best free-throw shooters . Is it because coaches aren't devoting enough practice time to the skill? Is it because players don't perceive it as important enough to dedicate themselves to improving? Is it technique? I remember my old high school coach saying, "You ought to be able to roll out of bed in the middle of the night and hit eight out of 10 free throws." What's the problem?
    -- Kevin Awn, Dubai, U.A.E.
    Guess what? Like a lot of things that are supposedly lost arts, the idea that free-throw shooting used to be a lot better is a myth. Last season Division I teams shot 69.1 percent from the line. In the previous 25 seasons that number was higher only once (in 2002-03, when teams shot 69.4 percent). The high-water mark for free-throw shooting was 1978-79 (69.7 percent), but in the "good old days" teams shot far worse from the line than they do today. From the season the NCAA started keeping track in 1947-48 (a miserable 59.8 percent) to 1974-75 (69.0 percent), free-throw shooting was better than it was last season only once (69.2 percent in 1965-66). Contrary to what you might think, the men also shot free throws better than Division I women's teams did last season (68.55 percent).



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    This is why we have McDermott. He is Mr. Fundamental. Eustachy was as well. If you dont have fundamentals you dont have squat. Highlight reel basketball is great for the media but it doesnt really win games.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    In a word: yes. But in many other words it might depend on how you define the phrase "fundamental basketball." Fundamentals today seem to be flashy dribbling, passing and shooting. Fundamentals of yesterday were dribbling, passing, and shooting and um what's that word? Oh yeah, DEFENSE. I'd say a passion to play defense is what is most lost in today's game. The core offensive stuff like dribbling, passing and shooting has pretty much stayed the same, just today's athlete's put a different twist on those skills to make them flashy. The thing most of today's athletes don't do is defense.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Defense is right, why else do you see the NBA scores so high. They dont play defense as well as they should or I should say focus on it anyway. Not everybody in the NBA is a great shooter so why else are the scores so high.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by CyinCo View Post
    What happened to solid ball handling and shooting. Free throw percentage seems to be on decline as well. I remember when the ISU team as a WHOLE shot nearly 80%. Players like Hoiberg understood the game and could play with anyone despite not being the best althete on the team.

    I look at the future recruits that are considered best in the nation and I just don't see fundamentals. What I see are incredible althetes that can jump out of the gym and score using that ability. It seems that is what coaches in college are looking for as well.
    I think the success of teams like Butler, Wichita State, UNI, etc are proof that fundamentals are not dead, at least in college basketball.

    There are tons of players in the NBA that don't have good fundamentals, but there are some that do. Take Tim Duncan. He's one of the best power forwards ever, and he has tremendous fundamentals.

    On free throw shooting. It is actually higher across the whole NCAA today than it has historically been. As for ISU, as far back as cyclones.com stats go (1950) ISU has normally shot 68-70% as a team. For several seasons form '92-'95 it was 75% but that was quite clearly an anomaly. No ISU team has shot better than 73% before or after except the '01-'02 team.

    As far as the best recruits go, of course the athletes are the highest recruits. You can teach someone how to dribble or shoot, but you can't teach height or jumping ability.

    I do think the style of play, especially in the NBA, has hurt fundamental basketball because athleticism can trump fundamentals, just not all of the time (see preseason NIT champs Butler). As someone mentioned above, fundamentals aren't dead, they've just changed a little.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by bostinelosd View Post
    Defense is right, why else do you see the NBA scores so high. They dont play defense as well as they should or I should say focus on it anyway. Not everybody in the NBA is a great shooter so why else are the scores so high.
    I think the 24 second shot clocks and 48 minute games probably help a lot.

    I might have said this before but I really think the NBA is a better game than it was 5 or 10 years ago. Actually, one of the problems was teams like the Knicks that played such physical (grabbing) defense that the game turned into one on one. It's not perfect now by any means but I will actually watch regular season games when I never did during the 90's and early 00's. There's more passing and running than the unwatchable stuff before.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Take it down a notch. Anybody have experience coaching or watching young people, high school and younger, play AAU basketball? I call it street ball. It's ugly. Fundamentals? Only in the absolute best teams. Bloody? Better have your health insurance paid up. But try to take those kids and teach them fundamentals and they get bored. 12 year old kids only want to shoot 25 ft. shots. That's what they see on the tube. Are fundamentals dead? No, but maybe not popular, unless you want to be really good.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by bostinelosd View Post
    Defense is right, why else do you see the NBA scores so high. They dont play defense as well as they should or I should say focus on it anyway. Not everybody in the NBA is a great shooter so why else are the scores so high.
    You are very far from the truth. There is too much defense in the NBA. The NBA has been actively trying to raise scoring levels! The NBA scoring level has been supressed the last 15 years.

    Its really simple why the NBA scores more points than the NCAA - THE GAMES ARE 8 MINUTES LONGER



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry1982 View Post
    Take it down a notch. Anybody have experience coaching or watching young people, high school and younger, play AAU basketball? I call it street ball. It's ugly. Fundamentals? Only in the absolute best teams. Bloody? Better have your health insurance paid up. But try to take those kids and teach them fundamentals and they get bored. 12 year old kids only want to shoot 25 ft. shots. That's what they see on the tube. Are fundamentals dead? No, but maybe not popular, unless you want to be really good.
    I spend a good deal of time around 3-12 grade ball. I'm at a loss as to what you're seeing that pains you.

    Kids have as good of unfundamentals as they ever have. The game has evolved to allow more contact in certain situations, and the "jump stop" is now a legitimate move over what was once considered a travel, but we're not playing with peach baskets anymore either or 2-to-make-3 free throws.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    I think the rise of teams like Butler and UNI actually prove that fundamentals, if not dead, are at least on life support. These teams use excellent individual fundamentals and team play to compete with schools that have much better athletes.

    If fundamentals are equal, the team with the better athletes will win, but it seems that many of these schools with superiour athletes recruited from high school do not have fundamentals at such a high level. Look no farther than the ISU team last year that was loaded with athletic talent and turnin in an ugly season just a hair over .500.

    It is the teams and the players that combine the talent with the fundamentals that achieve at the highest levels year in and year out. From what I have seen so far, it looks like Greg McDermott may just be the person to do that at Iowa State.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    You can usually look at the NBA draft, and find players that have great fundamentals waiting until the 3rd or 4th round, while the guys with the highlight reels go in the 1st. I can't stand the NBA. Too many games, and noone, including the players, give a crap about most regular season games.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclonepride View Post
    You can usually look at the NBA draft, and find players that have great fundamentals waiting until the 3rd or 4th round, while the guys with the highlight reels go in the 1st. I can't stand the NBA. Too many games, and noone, including the players, give a crap about most regular season games.
    Except, of course, for the fact that the NBA draft is only 2 rounds. But the players with fundamentals and not the athleticism generally don't get drafted.



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    Re: Are basketball Fundamentals Dead?

    I don't think fundamentals are dead. Fundamentals are relative to the kind of game being taught. Basketball is constantly evolving, and flashiness gets people in seats. Is the flashy game of today better than yesterday's vanilla, efficient style? Depends who you ask...the old schoolers are the ones that seem to have the problem with today's game.

    I, as an obviously biased new schooler, prefer to watch today's game than the stiffs of the 70s and early 80s.



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